Mortar's

[LT. Ox]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Given the lack of GPS and other electronic devices in working order in T2K, I'm good with the relative inaccuracy of indirect fire. Basically without all the high tech gadgets, just how accurate, first round, is it really going to get?

I some times wonder just how much "live fire" practice could be done with ammo stocks they way they must be leading to just how good your teams can be?
Just thinken

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by LT. Ox

I some times wonder just how much "live fire" practice could be done with ammo stocks they way they must be leading to just how good your teams can be?
Just thinken

Agreed. By the time of 2000, our game setting, how many properly qualified and experienced mortar and artillerymen are there left? Counter-battery fire is a bitch, not to mention radiation, starvation, bullets, rockets, exposure, etc every survivor is bound to have been exposed to.

Granted the will to live is a good teacher, but crew served weapons require a bit more training, practice and coordination than a "simple" rifle or machinegun. Those few pre/early war qualified "dropshorts", while probably pretty good, are going to be in short supply and a little out of practice as ammo grows ever shorter.

With the degradation of communications, loss of satnav/GPS systems, and wearing out of virtually everything else, it's unlikely in the extreme that the accuracy IRL of today, or even 15 years ago, would be even close to achievable.

[.45cultist]

In V1 there was a module or Challenge adventure where the artillery was manned by veterans found in refugee camps. Perhaps it was "Rock in Troubled Waters" article that supported "Armies of the Night". Those were 105's, but the principle is the same for other systems, especially stored older stock.

[Legbreaker]

Challenge #34 has a good article on mortars but nothing in it as far as rules, etc.

From "Rock in troubled waters", Challenge #42

301st Independent Battery: This unit is currently providing fire support for Cape May Naval Base, staffed with 80 ex-military "graybeards" culled from the refugees. In addition to small arms, the unit has three M202 howitzers and six 120mm mortars salvaged from national guard and army reserve armouries.

There's nothing else in the article re old artillery systems.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by LT. Ox

I some times wonder just how much "live fire" practice could be done with ammo stocks they way they must be leading to just how good your teams can be?
Just thinken

Some mortars have refurbishable training rounds.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by copeab

Some mortars have refurbishable training rounds.

Oh yes, we did a week with those on a miniature town in AIT. They are sabot rounds, with a cast iron body and a 20mm sabot round in the core which causes a flash when it goes off so you can see where you hit. We made a game of trying to run downrange and catch the body (which didn't go nearly as far), until somebody got hurt (cut his hand on the fin). If you didn't get a satisfactory score on the mock range, you became an 11B. (I didn't become an 11B until my second AIT a few years later.)

The sabot comes completely out of the body a second or so after firing; it's mostly there to allow us to get used the weight and handling of the round. The instructor sergeant just popped in a sabot, gave it to us, and when the body was returned, popped in a new sabot.

The 20mm sabots are simple, so I would guess a reasonable-sized community could make then.

[Legbreaker]

We had the same sort of thing for the M72 LAW - a 20mm (might have been 22mm - it's been 20+ years) rocket inside an insert in the fibreglass casing. Not exactly an AT round, but you still wouldn't want to get hit by it!

The 84mm Carl Gustav also has/had a training round using a 7.62mm tracer (I think). Absolutely NOTHING like firing real rounds, but it was useful for practising your aim and actually hitting the target before being allowed anywhere near the rather more expensive HEAT rounds (something like $10,000 per shot I think).

A mate of mine was working collecting shopping trolleys and was teased for doing what was seen as a dead end, low pay job. He shut them up quick when he mentioned he'd just blown through $100,000.00 of ammo on the weekend as a reservist.

[Draq]

Artillery and aircraft can only clear/destroy an objective, only boots on the ground can take and hold one.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Draq

Artillery and aircraft can only clear/destroy an objective, only boots on the ground can take and hold one.

Definitely true. Though air, artillery, and tank backup is always appreciated.

[Legbreaker]

Provided of course it's on target, otherwise it's ineffective at best, catastrophic at worst.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Oh yes, we did a week with those on a miniature town in AIT. They are sabot rounds, with a cast iron body and a 20mm sabot round in the core which causes a flash when it goes off so you can see where you hit. We made a game of trying to run downrange and catch the body (which didn't go nearly as far), until somebody got hurt (cut his hand on the fin). If you didn't get a satisfactory score on the mock range, you became an 11B. (I didn't become an 11B until my second AIT a few years later.)

The sabot comes completely out of the body a second or so after firing; it's mostly there to allow us to get used the weight and handling of the round. The instructor sergeant just popped in a sabot, gave it to us, and when the body was returned, popped in a new sabot.

The 20mm sabots are simple, so I would guess a reasonable-sized community could make then.

They also have full size inert warhead rounds (sand, concrete, and/or puff charge) . I have never been in mortars or artillery. But I was EOD, and we spend a fair amount of time down range looking at ordinance in the wild. We would practice different TTPs on the, we found a lot of 155mm with the shipping plugs still in them, and 81mm mortars that just had a puff charge, could easily be reused with new fuze and powder rings.