Soviet 746th Tank Regiment

[unkated]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

How many Russian mechanics can maintain the Western turbines?

They may not have practice, but I'll wager that by 1995, they have access to a translated maintenance manual.

IMHO, by late 1997, I would more expect vehicles to be retained for use by the unit that captured it (for either side), rather than turned back to a central authority.

Picture any unit commander - "While I'd rather have a magnificent vehicle (tank, APC, IFV, SPG) produced by my nation to match the others in my battalion, I cannot get any more (I have been told I will receive them later - much later). Meanwhile, this foreign beast is still working (mostly) and shoots, so while it works, it is better than the crews I have running around as leg infantry."

In the middle of a campaign season, I think few commanders would want to waste the troops (crew + escort) or fuel to send a captured vehicle back to some higher command to be accumulated with other captured vehicles.

And yes, this view seems to be carried in the various vehicle guides.

Uncle Ted

[Raellus]

Nice image, James.

Earlier in the war, I think small units made up exclusively of captured vehicles (for relative ease of resupply) are plausible. Later in the war, I see local commanders making use of whatever is at hand- there'd be a lot more mixing than matching. There's historical precedent for this pattern in how the Germans made use of captured war material throughout the course of WWII.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Nice image, James.

Earlier in the war, I think small units made up exclusively of captured vehicles (for relative ease of resupply) are plausible.

While I don't think it was ever confirmed one way or the other, I believe there were rumours that the East German NVA had a unit equipped with West German vehicles / uniforms etc whose mission in time of War was to operate behind NATO lines a la Otto Skorzeny.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Nice image, James.

Earlier in the war, I think small units made up exclusively of captured vehicles (for relative ease of resupply) are plausible. Later in the war, I see local commanders making use of whatever is at hand- there'd be a lot more mixing than matching. There's historical precedent for this pattern in how the Germans made use of captured war material throughout the course of WWII.

I wouldn't want to use enemy vehicles too early in the War. Too many heavily armed aircraft still flying to be riding around in a "commandeered" AFV (no matter how many US markings you put on it). Later on (when the Exchange is over), I'd love to play "chameleon" with captured enemy equipment. It might just keep you alive long enough to "grab them by the belt and settle things."

Reading this thread, I cannot help but remember in Band of Brothers when the guy wearing a German smock got bayoneted by his squad mate as he woke him up for guard duty. Fratricide is a thing in war.

[Raellus]

+1 to Adm. Lee.

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I wouldn't want to use enemy vehicles too early in the War. Too many heavily armed aircraft still flying to be riding around in a "commandeered" AFV (no matter how many US markings you put on it). Later on (when the Exchange is over), I'd love to play "chameleon" with captured enemy equipment. It might just keep you alive long enough to "grab them by the belt and settle things."

You make a very valid point, but even not using captured AFVs can result in blue-on-blue incidents. Unfortunately, it's simply a side-effect of the inevitable "fog of war". For a recent example, during the 1st Gulf War, at least one Bradley IFV was destroyed by U.S. aircraft. During Barbarosa, and until the Germans lost air superiority on the eastern front, many of their Panzers had Nazi flags spread out on their topside as a recognition symbol to keep their own Stukas from bombing mistakenly bombing them.

Obviously, troops would take every reasonable precaution to avoid becoming the target of friendly-fire, but I see the need for armor outweighing any increased risk. Also, PACT weapons were already an integral part of the reunified German army (in the v.1.0 timeline) so I think improved training would be the solution, instead of avoiding the use of enemy armor.

[James Langham2]

Originally Posted by Raellus

+1 to Adm. Lee.



You make a very valid point, but even not using captured AFVs can result in blue-on-blue incidents. Unfortunately, it's simply a side-effect of the inevitable "fog of war". For a recent example, during the 1st Gulf War, at least one Bradley IFV was destroyed by U.S. aircraft. During Barbarosa, and until the Germans lost air superiority on the eastern front, many of their Panzers had Nazi flags spread out on their topside as a recognition symbol to keep their own Stukas from bombing mistakenly bombing them.

Obviously, troops would take every reasonable precaution to avoid becoming the target of friendly-fire, but I see the need for armor outweighing any increased risk. Also, PACT weapons were already an integral part of the reunified German army (in the v.1.0 timeline) so I think improved training would be the solution, instead of avoiding the use of enemy armor.

There is a good argument that the German Army in later versions would still have some of the kit in storage.

[James Langham2]

Updated with a few extra thoughts on the creation of the unit.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by unkated

IMHO, by late 1997, I would more expect vehicles to be retained for use by the unit that captured it (for either side), rather than turned back to a central authority.

Picture any unit commander - "While I'd rather have a magnificent vehicle (tank, APC, IFV, SPG) produced by my nation to match the others in my battalion, I cannot get any more (I have been told I will receive them later - much later). Meanwhile, this foreign beast is still working (mostly) and shoots, so while it works, it is better than the crews I have running around as leg infantry."

In the middle of a campaign season, I think few commanders would want to waste the troops (crew + escort) or fuel to send a captured vehicle back to some higher command to be accumulated with other captured vehicles.

IMO, in '97, it seems more likely that the command & logistical structures would be still be strong enough to push captured vehicles to a few units, rather than leave them with the captors. That is, before the nukes fly, captured equipment would just be removed & stored. By winter, they'd be forming units with that captured gear, probably at the army or front level.

It's in '98 and later that divisions & smaller would be hanging onto vehicles as described above.