KFS Refit

[Project_Sardonicus]

A few thoughts on the KFS refit.

The KFS are not what we would consider a modern military outfit. Where the aim would be generally to give a small body of professional soldiers the absolute maximum amount of effective fire power they can carry. And if need be reload them by helicopter or airdrop.
Most rifle squads especially if mounted in an IFV or APC have by the standards of generation that came before a truly eye watering amount of fire power.

The KFS are more like a colonial era paramilitary/military unit. At that point the emphasis is on reliability, small units covering large areas on horse back with limited resupply and command worried they'd blow most of their hunting for game or shooting irresponsibly.

As such I think KFS would still be issuing Mini14s. But with a smaller clip of maybe as little as 10 round capacity and with a key lock on the selector to ensure it could only be set for semi or fully auto. Whereas Cetmes would be issued they would be specialised pieces of kit, for small units of highly trusted and reliable troops.

Also I suspect the KFS would build manually guided ATGMs. They're a much lighter and efficient route to either building hefty artillery guns weighing hundreds of pounds of steel. Or having to build dozens of inaccurate rockets or mortar shells.

It would be something like an early SS11 or Sagger. But radio guided (the technology is simple why waste all that copper on wire guidance wires?) The idea being a KFS unit with a couple of units in a truck or one in a jeep could park a mile or two from the target such as enemy encampment. Take their time setting up and then pick off useful targets such as guard towers, parked vehicles etc.

One unit doing the work of a dozen or so mortar tubes.

I like this way the KFS has a sliding level of increasing threat. Morrow teams maybe able to jam or take control of primitive radio controlled ATGMs. KFS units with semi autos soon unlock the full auto setting and hand out 40 round magazines.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

A few thoughts on the KFS refit.

The KFS are not what we would consider a modern military outfit. Where the aim would be generally to give a small body of professional soldiers the absolute maximum amount of effective fire power they can carry. And if need be reload them by helicopter or airdrop.
Most rifle squads especially if mounted in an IFV or APC have by the standards of generation that came before a truly eye watering amount of fire power.

The KFS are more like a colonial era paramilitary/military unit. At that point the emphasis is on reliability, small units covering large areas on horse back with limited resupply and command worried they'd blow most of their hunting for game or shooting irresponsibly.

As such I think KFS would still be issuing Mini14s. But with a smaller clip of maybe as little as 10 round capacity and with a key lock on the selector to ensure it could only be set for semi or fully auto. Whereas Cetmes would be issued they would be specialised pieces of kit, for small units of highly trusted and reliable troops.

Also I suspect the KFS would build manually guided ATGMs. They're a much lighter and efficient route to either building hefty artillery guns weighing hundreds of pounds of steel. Or having to build dozens of inaccurate rockets or mortar shells.

It would be something like an early SS11 or Sagger. But radio guided (the technology is simple why waste all that copper on wire guidance wires?) The idea being a KFS unit with a couple of units in a truck or one in a jeep could park a mile or two from the target such as enemy encampment. Take their time setting up and then pick off useful targets such as guard towers, parked vehicles etc.

One unit doing the work of a dozen or so mortar tubes.

I like this way the KFS has a sliding level of increasing threat. Morrow teams maybe able to jam or take control of primitive radio controlled ATGMs. KFS units with semi autos soon unlock the full auto setting and hand out 40 round magazines.

Or issue the AC556's to NCO's and Officers only, keeping Mini14's for average troops.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Or issue the AC556's to NCO's and Officers only, keeping Mini14's for average troops.

Yeh I could picture that. I was thinking how when the British army first distributed the Lee Metford bolt action, they included a little chain blocking the magazine release. So soldiers would have to load them more slowly and would only take them off in emergency circumstances. Similarly the old British Imperial shotgun was the bizarre Greener, a weapon with a single shot capacity and multiple safeties to make sure it couldn't be used if stolen without the right ammunition.

[ArmySGT.]

the KFS is the Rih Five. Being Tech level A and able to produce or reproduce any technology up to the time of the War in either 3rd or 4th edition.

The Rich Five did have cryotube tech prior to the War and gained Fusion through taken TMP equipment in the chaos of the early war years.

Prior to the War they appear to have stockpiled Mini-14s, M59 pistols, CETME Machineguns, and rifle grenades. Post war added M102 105mm howitzers, M1 Abrams tanks, M2 Bradley IFVs, M35 2 1/2 ton trucks, and M151 jeeps. The trucks and jeeps might have been stockpiled..... that is unclear. The big prize is the post war capture and reproduction of the P47 Thunderbolt fighters.

[gamerguy]

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

Also I suspect the KFS would build manually guided ATGMs. They're a much lighter and efficient route to either building hefty artillery guns weighing hundreds of pounds of steel. Or having to build dozens of inaccurate rockets or mortar shells.

It would be something like an early SS11 or Sagger. But radio guided (the technology is simple why waste all that copper on wire guidance wires?) The idea being a KFS unit with a couple of units in a truck or one in a jeep could park a mile or two from the target such as enemy encampment. Take their time setting up and then pick off useful targets such as guard towers, parked vehicles etc.

One unit doing the work of a dozen or so mortar tubes.

I like this way the KFS has a sliding level of increasing threat. Morrow teams maybe able to jam or take control of primitive radio controlled ATGMs. KFS units with semi autos soon unlock the full auto setting and hand out 40 round magazines.

The early ATGMs would be launched from near but not too close to the operators. They would then fly a path which would intersect a line drawn from the operator's position to the targets. The missile would have a flare in the tail (seen only from behind) and the operator would keep the flare and target lined up until they hit. The operator's control would be a joy stick to guide the missile. This much I know.

Once the missile turns to track the target it would fly in a line which could be traced back to the operator. I believe this was how the Israilis determined where to shoot to surspress the operators and cause the missiles to loose control. They kept some tanks on over watch whose duty it was to engage the missile operators while the rest of the unit advanced.

Once the operator aquires the missile in their sites they become vulnerable to counter battery fire. I think to initially engage the missile there was a wider field of view on the sights which was switched, once the operator had control, to a higher magnification. In order to aquire and track the missiles could not go too fast giving time to react on long range shots, IF the defender is ready. Simple radio controls would be easy to make from discrete components. Based on your timeline (edition) of the game what level of manufacturing would be avaialable to make these components? My assumption is the later the war the less likely anyone in North America could make these and the harder it would be to star and operation up. Lots of specialized components. Wire might be vauluable but it might be the only workable system.

Defenses could range from spaced armour plates, heavy forms of chain link fencing, rebar or slat armour. If we are talking an area close to a "hot" border a lot of methods of overcoming these missiles may already be in place. Mortars are a little harder to protect against.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by gamerguy

The early ATGMs would be launched from near but not too close to the operators. They would then fly a path which would intersect a line drawn from the operator's position to the targets. The missile would have a flare in the tail (seen only from behind) and the operator would keep the flare and target lined up until they hit. The operator's control would be a joy stick to guide the missile. This much I know.

Once the missile turns to track the target it would fly in a line which could be traced back to the operator. I believe this was how the Israilis determined where to shoot to surspress the operators and cause the missiles to loose control. They kept some tanks on over watch whose duty it was to engage the missile operators while the rest of the unit advanced.

Once the operator aquires the missile in their sites they become vulnerable to counter battery fire. I think to initially engage the missile there was a wider field of view on the sights which was switched, once the operator had control, to a higher magnification. In order to aquire and track the missiles could not go too fast giving time to react on long range shots, IF the defender is ready. Simple radio controls would be easy to make from discrete components. Based on your timeline (edition) of the game what level of manufacturing would be avaialable to make these components? My assumption is the later the war the less likely anyone in North America could make these and the harder it would be to star and operation up. Lots of specialized components. Wire might be vauluable but it might be the only workable system.

Defenses could range from spaced armour plates, heavy forms of chain link fencing, rebar or slat armour. If we are talking an area close to a "hot" border a lot of methods of overcoming these missiles may already be in place. Mortars are a little harder to protect against.

Pretty much my thought process. The KFS I think have always been the top level for technology development, so I guess if they're building their own radios, possibly old vacumn tube technology. Then it's not a huge leap to be building their own radio controlled aircraft or rockets.

As for the KFS most of the time they're up against enemies at a 19th century level of technology at best. It would be like wondering what would the results of a Korean/Vietnam era US army went head to head with say the British army in the Crimean War. The results being dare I say it messy for the less technological adapted one.

Something as simple as a biplane with an aimer with a radio and binoculars never mind an actual armed aeroplane could cause havoc when paired up with long range artillery.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Mind you probably the biggest advantage the KFS has it's an industrial society, including agriculture.

So it's soldiers are better fed, bigger, stronger more alert with better night vision than their foes.

I suppose it sounds silly. But a KFS unit on several thousand calories a day would be able to see better in the dark. Whilst a foe on subsistence rations would more than likely be struggling to stay awake on guard duty after dark.

Secondly most other forces are either handloading their ammunition (including making the gunpowder and caps), or using finite stocks. The KFS most likely has a factory or two churning out reliable 5.56 and 9mm all year round. Even a smallish one would be producing 100,000s if not 1,000,000s of rounds.

Meaning that even the most basic KFS grunt might have fired 200-300 rounds in training. Whilst his most elite foe might only fire 50-100 rounds a year.



KFS soldiers would not only be better shots, but more used to discipline under fire and fire and manoeuvre.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

Meaning that even the most basic KFS grunt might have fired 200-300 rounds in training. Whilst his most elite foe might only fire 50-100 rounds a year.



KFS soldiers would not only be better shots, but more used to discipline under fire and fire and manoeuvre.

That would be more than a non-Infantry soldier going through basic training today.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

That would be more than a non-Infantry soldier going through basi training today.

With the bad habits, only motivated troops(Spartan members) would even try.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

With the bad habits, only motivated troops(Spartan members) would even try.

So the 1970's Draft Army, then?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by gamerguy

The early ATGMs would be launched from near but not too close to the operators. They would then fly a path which would intersect a line drawn from the operator's position to the targets. The missile would have a flare in the tail (seen only from behind) and the operator would keep the flare and target lined up until they hit. The operator's control would be a joy stick to guide the missile. This much I know.

Once the missile turns to track the target it would fly in a line which could be traced back to the operator. I believe this was how the Israilis determined where to shoot to surspress the operators and cause the missiles to loose control. They kept some tanks on over watch whose duty it was to engage the missile operators while the rest of the unit advanced.

Once the operator aquires the missile in their sites they become vulnerable to counter battery fire. I think to initially engage the missile there was a wider field of view on the sights which was switched, once the operator had control, to a higher magnification. In order to aquire and track the missiles could not go too fast giving time to react on long range shots, IF the defender is ready. Simple radio controls would be easy to make from discrete components. Based on your timeline (edition) of the game what level of manufacturing would be avaialable to make these components? My assumption is the later the war the less likely anyone in North America could make these and the harder it would be to star and operation up. Lots of specialized components. Wire might be vauluable but it might be the only workable system.

Defenses could range from spaced armour plates, heavy forms of chain link fencing, rebar or slat armour. If we are talking an area close to a "hot" border a lot of methods of overcoming these missiles may already be in place. Mortars are a little harder to protect against.

The anti-Sagger drill for the 1970-80s US Army was for the tank that first spotted the launch signature to immediately fire whatever was in the gun tube at the site, then reload with HE or WP and start firing to either side, the other tank in the section would engage with coax and HMG. At the same time, drivers would engage the vehicle smoke generators and make a hard left or right turn. The tank commander would also fire the first bank of projectiles from the smoke launchers.

The intent was to kill, wound or suppress the missile operator, throw off the operator`s sight picture with a rapid and extreme movement, and finally to obscure the area with smoke, allowing the tanks to use their night vision/thermal sights to locate the operator.

This specific movement was intended for the two tank "light" section bounding forward to contact. The overwatching three tank "heavy" selection would immediately empty their gun tubes to the left and right of the launch sir and then switch to HE and WP rounds. With a half dozen APDS/HEAT rounds, followed up another volley of HE/WP rounds and several bursts of machine gun would throw off the operator.

At the company level, calls would be made for battalion mortars to "hip shoot" the area, followed by a fire mission from the supporting artillery battery.

The Soviets had a similar anti-missile defence. This was what made ATGMs such a pain in the ass, it wasn't the tracked launcher or the man portable missiles, it was the jeep mounted launcher that would fire a round, forcing the anti missile defence and its waste of time in suppressing and deploying, then clearing the area and redeploying for the next movement. In the meantime, the jeep would run back another 1-2 kilometres and start the whole process over and over and over, buying time.

[gamerguy]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

The Soviets had a similar anti-missile defence. This was what made ATGMs such a pain in the ass, it wasn't the tracked launcher or the man portable missiles, it was the jeep mounted launcher that would fire a round, forcing the anti missile defence and its waste of time in suppressing and deploying, then clearing the area and redeploying for the next movement. In the meantime, the jeep would run back another 1-2 kilometres and start the whole process over and over and over, buying time.

Ha! As I was reading it before I got to the last line all I could think of was a launch of dummy missiles or blind un guided launches followed up by real launches after the target(s) has unloaded/spent ammo and smoke dischargers and were blinded/engaged and might miss the follow up missiles. A tactic I used in Air to Air gaming launch two missiles, while the target was engaged in the first it put them out of position to deal with the second.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by gamerguy

Ha! As I was reading it before I got to the last line all I could think of was a launch of dummy missiles or blind un guided launches followed up by real launches after the target(s) has unloaded/spent ammo and smoke dischargers and were blinded/engaged and might miss the follow up missiles. A tactic I used in Air to Air gaming launch two missiles, while the target was engaged in the first it put them out of position to deal with the second.

There were simulators issued that could duplicate a TOW/Dragon launch, in cases of 12.

They favourite tactic was to fire a series of 2-4 and in the middle of the series, fire the real missile and after the hit bogie out of the area.

[dragoon500ly]

In the armoured cavalry squadrons, the cavalry platoons would deploy with a M-901 TOW track and a M-113 Dragon track for close protection. The TOEs would fire at 2-3000 meters, often remaining for.a.second shot.

The four tank section would deploy a two tank element about 1,500 meters out and would rapid fire 2-3 rounds and fall back to the next fighting position, the second tank element would repeat the process while toe TOWS would reload and engage or fall back to an overwatching position.

The intent was to.keep the Soviets off balance, picking off 2-3 vehicles each time and forcing them to deploy and call in support.