The Project, Prime Base, The Game

[cosmicfish]

You are talking about two different needs, both of which are valid, neither of which are mutually exclusive. Yes, the Project should have a failsafe to keep/restart the Project if Prime Base gets taken out, but they should also have a team like Phoenix to handle high-intensity/small-scale military problems. Phoenix could be in Prime Base or somewhere else, the failsafe team should NOT be in Prime Base (at least not entirely). Having one does not preclude the other, any more than having firefighters precludes also having police.

As to other uses for Phoenix, I am sure they would have many uses for them, but having them frozen until actually needed makes sense. Remember that military skills and conditioning are perishable, especially at high levels. Freezing Phoenix until they are actually needed is far more efficient than the alternatives of either going with a degraded unit after 5 years in a bunker or else expanding said bunker into a full-fledged special operations training facility.

As for it being a cliché, I am not sure what to say. I don't care if it is a cliché, having special operations capability (and in tiers) makes sense, that's why governments do it. And if it became popularized in the 80's, well, that's when both Delta Force and SEAL Team Six started to creep into the public eye, so I suppose that makes sense.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

You are talking about two different needs, both of which are valid, neither of which are mutually exclusive. Yes, the Project should have a failsafe to keep/restart the Project if Prime Base gets taken out, but they should also have a team like Phoenix to handle high-intensity/small-scale military problems. Phoenix could be in Prime Base or somewhere else, the failsafe team should NOT be in Prime Base (at least not entirely). Having one does not preclude the other, any more than having firefighters precludes also having police.

As to other uses for Phoenix, I am sure they would have many uses for them, but having them frozen until actually needed makes sense. Remember that military skills and conditioning are perishable, especially at high levels. Freezing Phoenix until they are actually needed is far more efficient than the alternatives of either going with a degraded unit after 5 years in a bunker or else expanding said bunker into a full-fledged special operations training facility.

As for it being a cliché, I am not sure what to say. I don't care if it is a cliché, having special operations capability (and in tiers) makes sense, that's why governments do it. And if it became popularized in the 80's, well, that's when both Delta Force and SEAL Team Six started to creep into the public eye, so I suppose that makes sense.

Actually having a massive "Frozen Watch" or series of such facilities holding the back up staff is a pretty good idea.

[cosmicfish]

I would have 6 teams of 20-30 people each spaced around the country, with a matching number of MARS teams for security. 3 such teams could replace a lost Regional Command, supplementing later with individuals drawn from elsewhere, or all 6 could do the same for Prime Base. Each team would know the locations of 3-4 Regional commands and at least half would know the location of Prime Base.

If a command is lost, the Teams are activated. The nearest Team goes to the site and evaluates the situation and communicates whether or not the site is still viable, and sets up basic functions there or somewhere else. The rest of the Teams follow as soon as possible.

And with the exception of the MARS Teams, these are administrators , not field personnel. The regular Frozen Watch has a different job and needs different people.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I would have 6 teams of 20-30 people each spaced around the country, with a matching number of MARS teams for security. 3 such teams could replace a lost Regional Command, supplementing later with individuals drawn from elsewhere, or all 6 could do the same for Prime Base. Each team would know the locations of 3-4 Regional commands and at least half would know the location of Prime Base.

If a command is lost, the Teams are activated. The nearest Team goes to the site and evaluates the situation and communicates whether or not the site is still viable, and sets up basic functions there or somewhere else. The rest of the Teams follow as soon as possible.

And with the exception of the MARS Teams, these are administrators , not field personnel. The regular Frozen Watch has a different job and needs different people.

I meant the facilities would have the most basic gear, like the FW. mostly sidearms in the emergency lockers with a couple of long arms.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

I meant the facilities would have the most basic gear, like the FW. mostly sidearms in the emergency lockers with a couple of long arms.

I've never seen the point in that. The expense of training and freezing absolutely dwarfs the cost of equipping, and minimizing their equipment endangers them if there is a bolthole compromise, renders them mostly ineffective until they can be properly equipped (and how long does that take?), and means that they can only be woken if the area is safe and/or a team is able to provide security... in which case are they really that badly needed?

Give them versatile equipment - assault rifles and hummers, or the like. Or something general but appropriate to their skills, like GPMG's or SAWs for MARS. But don't leave them useless and defenseless when you only expect to use them when something had gone wrong.

[cosmicfish]

That was for the FW, but is still applies to a lesser degree for backup administrators. Such a team might need to cross hundreds or even thousands of miles of unsecured territory to accomplish their mission, that is too far for emergency equipment.

[tsofian]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

That was for the FW, but is still applies to a lesser degree for backup administrators. Such a team might need to cross hundreds or even thousands of miles of unsecured territory to accomplish their mission, that is too far for emergency equipment.

I have a concept called Regional Rescue Teams. These teams are first responders type resources. It is true that standard urban response vehicles won't be capable of this mission but there have been armored ambulances since at least WW2. I recall Cadillac Gage having both an ambulance and fire engine version http://www.albert-baas.nl/cadillac.htm https://www.armyrecognition.com/etat..._sheet_de.html

I've always been a tracked vehicle man myself so I can look at these lovely beauties from the former USSR http://englishrussia.com/2010/08/06/...s-of-the-ussr/

So these teams have three vehicles. One is an ambulance, the second is a fire engine and the third is a heavy rescue vehicle. The team generally consists of a trauma surgeon and paramedics and fire fighters, trained in both rescue and suppression (urban and wildland). I figure a 12 person team.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I've never seen the point in that. The expense of training and freezing absolutely dwarfs the cost of equipping, and minimizing their equipment endangers them if there is a bolthole compromise, renders them mostly ineffective until they can be properly equipped (and how long does that take?), and means that they can only be woken if the area is safe and/or a team is able to provide security... in which case are they really that badly needed?

Give them versatile equipment - assault rifles and hummers, or the like. Or something general but appropriate to their skills, like GPMG's or SAWs for MARS. But don't leave them useless and defenseless when you only expect to use them when something had gone wrong.

In this case it would be a "pull" to quickly gather these people and bring them home. Though the Pheonix Team could do that with a Chinook, and a C130. Perhaps hide Pheonix very well, use your book idea to discover and retrieve each team. BTW, the article with Frozen Watch vs. some Badges didn't have enough weapons for six people, I had to add another sidearm to a locker.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

In this case it would be a "pull" to quickly gather these people and bring them home. Though the Pheonix Team could do that with a Chinook, and a C130. Perhaps hide Pheonix very well, use your book idea to discover and retrieve each team. BTW, the article with Frozen Watch vs. some Badges didn't have enough weapons for six people, I had to add another sidearm to a locker.

You can't count on being able to dispatch resources to those people, especially in the case of an emergency that threatens their location. The C-130's will take months or years of work to become available between any two given points, and helicopters may not be broadly deployable for a while either - how long will it to take to secure the airspace with sufficient surety to risk such irreplaceable assets?

There is already a reasonable expectation that the Project needs backup equipment as well as backup personnel, so why not put some of the former in with the latter?

[tsofian]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I've never seen the point in that. The expense of training and freezing absolutely dwarfs the cost of equipping, and minimizing their equipment endangers them if there is a bolthole compromise, renders them mostly ineffective until they can be properly equipped (and how long does that take?), and means that they can only be woken if the area is safe and/or a team is able to provide security... in which case are they really that badly needed?

Give them versatile equipment - assault rifles and hummers, or the like. Or something general but appropriate to their skills, like GPMG's or SAWs for MARS. But don't leave them useless and defenseless when you only expect to use them when something had gone wrong.

I agree completely with Cosmicfish. A bolt hole costs considerable monies and is to be abandoned. Just the cost of recruiting a team member will run in the thousands, background checks, interviews, resume reading all that stuff costs time and money. Add the cost of training, which will be tens of thousands if not 100,000 or even more. To penny pinch on equipment makes no sense whatever.