The 40th Infantry Division

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The problem with answering is......the MTOE is different for Battalions and Companies due to the type of Division these were built to be a part of..

40th is what type of Infantry Division? With all the Mechanized Battalions I would have to surmise it is an ersatz Mechanized Infantry Division (Minus)... Lacking alot of support units and its Armor Battalions.

Assuming Mechanized Infantry.

Where are the Two and supposed to three Brigade HQ units and Division Support Brigade HQ?


bah! damn this forum software formatting.

I'll do it in Word and make a PDF so it is possible to read it.

Thanks--I think to be really clear: I'm not concerned about how much they have NOW. I get all that. What I'm trying to figure out is what they would have LEFT by 2001 April of the campaign setting.

For instance, you mention this:

HHC
18 x 1 1/4-T HMMWV
28 x 5-T 6x6 Trk
6 x 2 1/2-T 6x6 Trk
2 x Trk Forklift

So what would the HHC have left? According to what you wrote above, 1, perhaps 2 HMMWVs, 2, perhaps 3 5-T trucks, 0 2 1/2 tons or forklifts.

However I wonder about that--what kind of forklifts are these anyway? I have operated forklifts and they were either electrical or propane.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Enfield

Thanks--I think to be really clear: I'm not concerned about how much they have NOW. I get all that. What I'm trying to figure out is what they would have LEFT by 2001 April of the campaign setting.

For instance, you mention this:

HHC
18 x 1 1/4-T HMMWV
28 x 5-T 6x6 Trk
6 x 2 1/2-T 6x6 Trk
2 x Trk Forklift

So what would the HHC have left? According to what you wrote above, 1, perhaps 2 HMMWVs, 2, perhaps 3 5-T trucks, 0 2 1/2 tons or forklifts.

However I wonder about that--what kind of forklifts are these anyway? I have operated forklifts and they were either electrical or propane.

Probably Rough Terrain Forklifts.....maybe Telehandlers. The BTOE is not that specific. These are heavy equipment and have diesel engines.

The basis is what did they start with....when was the Division activated and what was available to form a Division at that time? If the Division was active before the war it would have 100%. Activated after the war began and that goes down. Their are categories of mobilization, that determines what a unit has..... Down at Category C mobilization the unit has the barest cadre of Officers and Non commissioned Officers without equipment or lower enlisted. While and all up Level 1 has everything and everyone (ideally).

There are several factors in what to they have now....... 2000....
What did they have at activation?
What losses have they taken in combat?
What losses have they taken to wear/tear and lack of parts?
What was taken by a higher HQ and distributed to other units to attain some level of mission readiness? Example..... 5ton trucks taken from Aviation Maintenance and transferred to Division Artillery to move towed guns.

At what minimum is the unit still capable of performing their mission or mission support activities?

Meh infantry Battalion.pdf

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Probably Rough Terrain Forklifts.....maybe Telehandlers. The BTOE is not that specific. These are heavy equipment and have diesel engines.

The basis is what did they start with....when was the Division activated and what was available to form a Division at that time? If the Division was active before the war it would have 100%. Activated after the war began and that goes down. Their are categories of mobilization, that determines what a unit has..... Down at Category C mobilization the unit has the barest cadre of Officers and Non commissioned Officers without equipment or lower enlisted. While and all up Level 1 has everything and everyone (ideally).

There are several factors in what to they have now....... 2000....
What did they have at activation?
What losses have they taken in combat?
What losses have they taken to wear/tear and lack of parts?
What was taken by a higher HQ and distributed to other units to attain some level of mission readiness? Example..... 5ton trucks taken from Aviation Maintenance and transferred to Division Artillery to move towed guns.

At what minimum is the unit still capable of performing their mission or mission support activities?

Attachment 4095

This is what is in the US Army Vehicle Guide.

40TH INFANTRY DIVISION (Mechanized) (less 1st Brigade)
The division was formed at Camp Rilea, Oregon on 1/1 7/98 as the 40th Training Division from surviving command and support personnel of the 40th Infantry Division (Mechanized) which had been evacuated from Germany. The division was quickly brought up to strength by recent inductees and assigned a variety of security, disaster relief and reconstruction tasks in Oregon and northern California. In March the division came under command of the newly-activated 63rd US Corps and moved south by road. In May the division arrived at Camp Roberts, California.

After being reinforced by a variety of armored vehicles the division was again redesignated as 40th Infantry Division (Mechanized) and committed to combat against elements of the Mexican Army and assorted armed bands.

Tbe missing 1st Brigade is, according to canon, still in Austria.

[ArmySGT.]

Jesus the T2K canon is full stupid sometimes.

A Division (minus) is formed in January of 98 from a cadre of veterans.

Instead of training with the new troops and equipment they under take non combat operations, then six weeks later deploy to combat.

On the plus side...... formed in 98 with veterans of combat in Europe.

So they get formed with the War Reserve (if that hasn't been nuked) from Sierra Army Depot, Tooele Army Depot, and some others. That's good news they should have received 100% of the equipment in pristine depot condition.

Six weeks isn't enough time to work up to an acceptable level of training and competence for the new soldiers assigned or the Division readiness either.

Without the Armor Battalions, the unit isn't ready. That is taking one whole piece out of the Combined Arms Team and a doctrinal failure. The M2 Bradley unit would have to be used as the Armor force and probably have been decimated with the survivors now light infantry for the most part. The Attack Aviation is probably decimated too. Battle damage and high use without spares from the high tempo of screening and scouting for light armor doing the heavy armor mission.

Deployed by road? No.

Tanks and anything on tracks doesn't go long distances on their tracks due to wear and maintenance issues.

Somehow, this 63rd Corps brought in a hundred or more civilian low boy tractor trailers and drove them to California. Whew. That was expensive and difficult. Then a hundred or more civilian buses to move the people.

Where did they get half a million gallons of diesel in 98?

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Jesus the T2K canon is full stupid sometimes.

A Division (minus) is formed in January of 98 from a cadre of veterans.

Instead of training with the new troops and equipment they under take non combat operations, then six weeks later deploy to combat.

On the plus side...... formed in 98 with veterans of combat in Europe.

So they get formed with the War Reserve (if that hasn't been nuked) from Sierra Army Depot, Tooele Army Depot, and some others. That's good news they should have received 100% of the equipment in pristine depot condition.

Six weeks isn't enough time to work up to an acceptable level of training and competence for the new soldiers assigned or the Division readiness either.

Without the Armor Battalions, the unit isn't ready. That is taking one whole piece out of the Combined Arms Team and a doctrinal failure. The M2 Bradley unit would have to be used as the Armor force and probably have been decimated with the survivors now light infantry for the most part. The Attack Aviation is probably decimated too. Battle damage and high use without spares from the high tempo of screening and scouting for light armor doing the heavy armor mission.

Deployed by road? No.

Tanks and anything on tracks doesn't go long distances on their tracks due to wear and maintenance issues.

Somehow, this 63rd Corps brought in a hundred or more civilian low boy tractor trailers and drove them to California. Whew. That was expensive and difficult. Then a hundred or more civilian buses to move the people.

Where did they get half a million gallons of diesel in 98?

I was thinking that the story needs to be narrowed down, not just to make sense but provide a background that works with the setting.

BTW, is there any reason trains could not be used to transport the gear, vehicles and people? That seems more efficient and less costly to me. As i understand it there are both freight and Amtrak hubs in Bakersfield.