T2K Tank forces

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Been looking at the Stingray Tank and how many might have been available for the US Army in the timeline

The canon has these as being made for a Pakistani Army order but taken over when the war broke out and delivered instead to US Army units in Europe and the US.

Looking at the history of the Pakistani Army and their tank buys I am thinking that the most likely buy this would have replaced in the real world would have been the order for 268 Type-85-IIM tanks that China sold to Pakistan from 1992-1996 as well as the 320 tanks that Pakistan was interested in buying from the Ukraine from 1997-1999 and also the 250 Type-69 tanks that were delivered from 1993-1999. Given the tensions with the Soviet Union of the V1 timeline any of the Chinese orders may have only been partially delivered prior to the war with the Soviets.

Thus the Pakistani's turned to the US and bought Stingray's, some of which probably got delivered and the rest were what was taken over by the US Army. Most likely as the war started with the Soviets the Army also ordered light tanks of their own as well but these arent mentioned in the timeline (i.e. it makes it sound like all they got were the ones being built for Pakistan)

One question would be if there was an order being built would Textron have closed down the Cocoa Beach facility and moved it to Louisiana in 1994? Or possibly kept the tank facility where it was and only moved light armored vehicle production there instead?

Either location would be destroyed, no? Cocoa is cheek-to-jowl with Titusville which of course has USAF satellite launch facilities (and there's a strike of 10 1mt warheads in a pattern over there to kill KSC and Patrick AFB), and Textron Land Systems are in Slidell, LA, and are going to be flooded when the locks are destroyed by a strike on New Orleans.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Either location would be destroyed, no? Cocoa is cheek-to-jowl with Titusville which of course has USAF satellite launch facilities (and there's a strike of 10 1mt warheads in a pattern over there to kill KSC and Patrick AFB), and Textron Land Systems are in Slidell, LA, and are going to be flooded when the locks are destroyed by a strike on New Orleans.

Actually it was 10 100 kiloton blasts that added up to one megaton on KSC

And looking at where the nukes hit in the New Orleans area there is a good chance the factory survived - the strikes were all the south of it along the Mississippi River - meaning the factory has a good chance of making it thru the TDM

[Legbreaker]

Physically may have survived, but that dang fallout always goes where you least want it!
As I've mentioned many times over the years, even just the rumour of radiation could well keep the place deserted.

[Olefin]

The attacks were airbursts so there wouldnt have been much fallout - and if the Lima Tank Plant survived - as it did per Challenge Magazine - then most likely at least one of the two Cadillac Gage tank plants survived - meaning a very good place for an adventure a la the Ohio Challenge Magazine article

[Legbreaker]

Doesn't have to be actual fallout though, just the rumour of it to keep people away.
NOBODY wants to risk radiation poisoning and potential death.

[Olefin]

and thats what kept the Lima Tank Plant intact - i.e. everyone ran away from the presumed fallout and didnt do to it what happened to a lot of other factories and workshops - and as a result there is an intact tank factory waiting to be used again one day - and all kinds of parts you can use to keep the tanks you have left still going - even in this case if the tanks are Stingrays instead of M1's

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

and thats what kept the Lima Tank Plant intact - i.e. everyone ran away from the presumed fallout and didnt do to it what happened to a lot of other factories and workshops - and as a result there is an intact tank factory waiting to be used again one day - and all kinds of parts you can use to keep the tanks you have left still going - even in this case if the tanks are Stingrays instead of M1's

While I agree with you about the infrastructure the problem is the people. If you house them far enough away that their fears of fallout are ameliorated, they're going to require safe transportation to and from the facility which means fuel and other resources. Then there's power to the factory. I'm sure you (of any of us!) is aware of the amperage draw of the plasma torches that they use to cut armor sections with, or run the glass-bead-blasting chambers that prep armor for NBC paint coating, cranes to move turrets, lathes to true gun tubes, and on and on.

Then there's a question of lost expertise: how many very specialized jobs were handled by highly trained individuals who are now an ash shadow on the sidewalk next to what used to be their house? How do you train new people?

And the ones who survived, how do you motivate them to come back in to work when they're more worried about growing eggplant in their bathtub so they'll have enough food to last them a few weeks down the road?

Don't get me wrong, in general, I want to be on your side of the argument, but it's more than just "We have a working tank factory."

Also, one last thing: canonically Florida was devastated by five hurricanes from 1997 to 2000 (one part of Howling Wilderness I can buy in to). If the space coast got hit by a few, that plant in FL might be gone - flattened. If any of them got into the gulf ala Katrina, so might the one in LA.

Again, I'm not yelling at you saying you're just wrong wrong wrong, I just want to be realistic about it. I mean for my home campaign (just because I don't buy into the "We must make this fit AD 2300" storyline) I could see one or both facilities surviving, so I'm with you there.