City of Angels? (moved from archive)

[recon35]

If your timeline doesn't have Salina Cruz, just to the south of the Gulf of California, destroyed, there is a refinery and port that has the equipment to ship crude/refined oil, so the Soviets may have been getting their oil from there. That places them in the vicinity for the Virginia action in Satellite Down.

[kalos72]

The other question, would the dock facilities in LA be worth anything now? Most of the nuke tonnage hit on the north side of the city I think...

The module wanted LA to be a waste but I dont see it being any worse then Houston and they dont portray that area nearly as badly.

[Legbreaker]

Bear in mind the nuke lists only show the larger strikes - over 0.5 Mt except for a handful of specific exceptions (the White House for example which received a 0.25 Kt ground burst).

Howling Wilderness also states on page 10:

The exclusion of a city from this list does not mean that is is intact. Civil unrest, hostile military action, and other factors have cause severe damage in regions otherwise untouched by the war.

Given there are Mexican units in the LA region, it would be safe to assume the area has suffered "hostile military action", and those areas not destroyed by nukes have been damaged by more conventional means.
There's also the probability the fires caused by nukes spread unchecked for days, weeks, potentially even months, not to mention the possibility of earthquakes and the associated damage they can cause.

[Olefin]

I interpret the list of nuke strikes as the only ones that occurred in the US - you arent going to see a lot of battlefield nukes in the US - possibly Canada but only if the Soviets brought them with them - but Division Cuba and the Mexicans wont have any nukes

now on the other hand having a firestorm caused by the nuke strikes on LA - of which there were several - destroy one hell of a lot of the city - yup I will buy that totally

or rioting after the nuclear strikes - I was there for the Rodney King riots - and the citizens of LA did a pretty good job burning up a heck of a lot of buildings without any assistance from nuke strikes to help it along

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I interpret the list of nuke strikes as the only ones that occurred in the US

Well that's completely wrong given the R-27U Zyb, R-39 Rif and R29M Shtil, all common Soviet sub launched ballistic missiles, have small warheads of 100-200 kt each.

[mpipes]

Keep in mind for LA; the city is essentially surrounded by hills. Blast waves are going to head outward and then get reflected back in. Also, there are miles and miles of wooden homes built during the housing boom in the 40s through 50s. Those are going to be shattered and all that wood set aflame. At Hiroshima, a LOT of the damage was due to the fire storm started by the thermal pulse. Same would happen in LA, and with the shattered water system, no way to fight the flames. The LA basin would essentially be burned out by the firestorm. Total devastation.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Well that's completely wrong given the R-27U Zyb, R-39 Rif and R29M Shtil, all common Soviet sub launched ballistic missiles, have small warheads of 100-200 kt each.

Actually I have the canon to back me up on what nukes were actually used - i.e. Allegheny Uprising confirming that the only nukes that hit in PA were the ones on the refineries near Philly

So if the Soviets were using all kinds of smaller nukes then why didnt they hit:

BAE Plant York PA - M109, M88, Bradley, M8 Buford plant - only plant making all of those vehicles - yet untouched by nukes

Harley Davidson plant York PA

Harrisburg PA state capital

Mack Trucks Assembly plant Macungie PA - which by 1997 had to be switched to making military trucks for sure

Three Mile Island Harrisburg PA

multiple army and NG bases in PA including the Carlisle Barracks

Pittsburgh and its steel producing factories

Thus its pretty clear that what got hit by nukes - not by riots, forest fires, natural disasters, etc. - but by nukes is what is in the canon only

Need more backup - look at Urban Guerrilla - only nuke attacks are the ones in the canon strikes - same with the Texas module - only nuke attacks are the ones in the canon strikes for the US as a whole

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Actually I have the canon to back me up on what nukes were actually used - i.e. Allegheny Uprising confirming that the only nukes that hit in PA were the ones on the refineries near Philly

One state does not detail an entire nation.
Also, Urban Guerrilla is only detailing one relatively small area directly involved in the module. The rest of the state is glossed over.
It also does not rule out other strikes, and actually states "Florida was hit by a series of selective nuclear strikes..."

Want more evidence? How about Howling Wilderness which specifically states "With certain exceptions, only places that received .5 megaton or more are covered here."
Also, "represented by the megaton(Mt) rating of the weapons exploded there (not necessarily as a single weapon)".

Going back to the actual warheads in the missiles most commonly carried by Soviet boomers at the time, their yield is either 100 kt or 200kt. That's a LOT of warheads spread around, even if you just dump them on only those locations which received .5 Mt or greater. As has been discussed many, MANY times in the past, there's loads of potential targets which deserve a nuke, but don't require an ICBM with their correspondingly larger (usually over 250 kt) warheads.

Again, the books only detail the larger strikes and leave the individual Referee the freedom, even duty, to allocate smaller hits as they see fit.
Note that all versions include nuclear craters as a possible random encounter with no restriction on where they can be found. Only France and Australia (according to the scenario "What's Polish for G'day") have not been hit, although that information is really just anecdotal.

Therefore your proposition that all nuclear targets in the US are already listed in the books is clearly and definitively proven wrong.