Great Lakes vs Mississippi Usefullness

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by kalos72

rcaf_77 - Do you know the names/classes and where they were stationed?

Any thoughts on T2K deployment?

The vessel I encountered on Lake Ontario near Toronto was called the Anticosti. This was in 1994. She wasn't very big, but she had guns (20mm on the foredeck and 2 .50's on the bridge wings). She was headed North towards the St. Lawrence at a leisurely 8 knots.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

The vessel I encountered on Lake Ontario near Toronto was called the Anticosti. This was in 1994. She wasn't very big, but she had guns (20mm on the foredeck and 2 .50's on the bridge wings). She was headed North towards the St. Lawrence at a leisurely 8 knots.

HMCS Anticosti (MSA 110) was an Anticosti-class minesweeper that served in the Canadian Forces from 1989 to 2000. Originally an oil rig support vessel, she was purchased in 1989 and saw service until the entry of the newer Kingston-class coastal defence vessels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Anticosti_(MSA_110)

She was one of two the other being HMCS Moresby (MSA 112)

HMCS Moresby (MSA 112)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Moresby_(MSA_112)

[kalos72]

One thing here thats still confusing to me.

When you look up the Corps of Engineers they are all military like. Listed under DoD, divisions, etc.

But how would you know what units were responsible for say the SOO Locks?

Are they based/organized like other military units? How can I tell who was assigned those locks come 1996/1997?

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by kalos72

One thing here thats still confusing to me.

When you look up the Corps of Engineers they are all military like. Listed under DoD, divisions, etc.

But how would you know what units were responsible for say the SOO Locks?

Are they based/organized like other military units? How can I tell who was assigned those locks come 1996/1997?

The Corps of Engineers is the world largest Civil Works Organization, The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is organized geographically into eight permanent divisions all reporting directly to the HQ. Within each division, there are several districts. Districts are defined by watershed boundaries for civil works projects and by political boundaries for military projects.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...s_of_Engineers

https://www.usace.army.mil/

Great Lakes and Ohio River Division (LRD), located in Cincinnati. Reaches from the St Lawrence Seaway, across the Great Lakes, down the Ohio River Valley to the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers. Covers 355,300 square miles (920,000 km2), parts of 17 states. Serves 56 million people. Its seven districts are located in Buffalo, Chicago, Detroit, Louisville, Nashville, Pittsburgh, and Huntington, West Virginia. The division commander serves on two national and international decision-making bodies: co-chair of the Lake Superior, Niagara, and Ontario/St Lawrence Seaway boards of control; and the Mississippi River Commission.

I believe Great Lakes and Ohio River Division (LRD) would be commanded by a General of some sort

[kalos72]

I have done that basic research, thank you.

But really, if there is a General, of what unit? There isn't anything in any ORBAT I have found that shows where USACE gets its people or how they are organized. Surely 8 people in New Orleans aren't doing all the work for that district?

Do they use regular Army Engineers? Are certain US ARMY engineering units assigned to support them or a district?

[Legbreaker]

And are those units and/or personnel liable to be pulled away from their peacetime roles and thrown into combat support positions over in Europe or wherever....?

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I have done that basic research, thank you.

But really, if there is a General, of what unit? There isn't anything in any ORBAT I have found that shows where USACE gets its people or how they are organized. Surely 8 people in New Orleans aren't doing all the work for that district?

Do they use regular Army Engineers? Are certain US ARMY engineering units assigned to support them or a district?

is

First of all of this information, you can find on the USACE website

The Corps in employs around 37,000 persons both military and civilian the military pers are from the engineer's branch. Now the number for units and breakdown of each vary. In USACE the districts are the smallest unit the number of persons in each district depending on the size and what the Corps operations in each district. As an example, the Corps operates the Clarence Cannon Dam on the Salt River at Monroe City, Missouri. So how people work at a power dam? Also, The Mississippi Valley Division’s navigation responsibilities include planning and constructing navigation channels, locks and dams, and dredging to maintain channel depths of the harbours and inland waterways within its 370,000-square-mile boundary. The division operates and maintains 4,200+ miles of navigable channels, 62 locks, 51 shallow-draft ports and seven deep-draft ports. In partnership with local port authorities, District personnel oversee dredging and construction projects at numerous ports and harbours.

Now the Corps also has purely military units like the 249th Engineer Battalion (Prime Power) which provides commercial-level power to military units and federal relief organizations during operations. Additionally, the commander serves as the Commandant of the U.S. Army Prime Power School, the institution responsible for the development of Army and Navy power generation specialists. The organization is charged with the rapid provision of Army generators to support worldwide requirements.

The Corps also has a number of persons you deal with planning and construction of major public works project, this includes hydrological data capture and surveying operations.

[Olefin]

FYI one thing you have to keep in mind that in the timeline there would be at least two and possibly three steam fired coal ships still in operation on the Great Lakes

SS City of Midland 41 was a four thousand ton train ferry that in our real world was converted to a barge in late 1997 - but with the need for transport and the oil shortage most likely would have still been operational - and she operates on coal, not oil

SS Badger is still operating on the Great Lakes today - again a 4000 ton coal powered steam fired train ferry

SS Spartan was used as a parts ship for the other two - but might be able to be made functional

Those two (or three) ships would be hugely of use to either CivGov or MilGov - and are more than big enough to mount a decent amount of armament on them

and these are big ships - they had staterooms and other accommodations - they could haul 600 or more in comfort - and probably a lot more in less comfort - i.e. troops and their vehicles

Not sure if they have been discussed here before - they are home ported in Wisconsin and go back and forth to Michigan