PMC's Before T2k

[kalos72]

How about large scale mercenary forces?

I am reading the "Pacific" write up and they talk about them alot. Plus, the Merc Gazetteer states Australia actually hired brigades worth to defend and occupy Papua New Guinea?

I could see them stemming from Central American countries in the 90's...

[CDAT]

One thing that I read someplace, do not remember where and never double checked if it is true or not. But anyway on to it, that being you are not a mercenary if your nation is involved with the conflict, so for example Blackwater in Iraq 2003 is not a mercenary as the US in involved in the fight, but if they were to be involved in say the Iran/Iraq war then they would have been as the US was not involved in that war. Now I am not sure if this only applies to the country of the company, the country of the individual or both.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Plus, the Merc Gazetteer states Australia actually hired brigades worth to defend and occupy Papua New Guinea?

Speaking as an Australian ex soldier, I can't see that happening as described, however they might be enlisted into the army perhaps even as a whole unit with fast tracked training, or cash may be provided to PNG so that they are technically the employing party (not like we don't already prop up the PNG government financially).
But the Australian government directly hiring mercenaries? No, not likely.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

And it should be mentioned that historically, the Australian government has condemned mercenaries and even sought to prosecute Australians who have worked as mercs (there was one case decades ago where an ex-Aussie Army soldier was helping the Karen rebels in Burma and the Aussie govt made it almost impossible for him to return to Australia without getting arrested).

This dislike has also extended to PMCs with some Australian former military personnel, having applied to join PMCs, being told that they are no longer welcome in the Australian military.
So yeah, the Merc: 2000 books suffer from the writers not knowing much about Australia (the list of Australian military smallarms is a perfect example).

[kalos72]

Wow, I get it after Blackwater and the whole deal.

But do you think Australia would really prefer to send its own troops to defend New Guinea from an Indonesian Communist assault come T2k?

I mean I would think all bets are off once the nukes start dropping...

After reading up on Blackwater and the RL rise of PMC's in the US military, I am thinking there would be much more liberal use of them in a T2k world.

And to the point its armies vs small groups of security forces guarding an embassy...

I am listening to "Blackwater: The rise of the words most powerful mercenary army" and its REALLY telling about the mindset of the people in charge at the time.

[Legbreaker]

PNG is almost like an extra state of Australia, and was under our direct control until 1975. There's still very close ties, and militarily it's the location of one of the key events in our history - the battles of the Kokoda track.
As mentioned previously, we also send quite a lot of money there to subsidise the government, and a number of Australia resource companies have large scale operations (mines, etc) there.
Note also Australia was the main country to go to East Timor's aid in 1999, well before the UN became involved with New Zealand contributing the second largest contingent, the largest they'd sent anywhere since the Korean War.

Australia's sent troops into the area, and will very likely do it again if needed.

As an aside, back when I was still a reservist and before I went full time, there was a rumour floating about that if Australia sent another 100 soldiers over seas, a reserve unit would need to be activated to maintain the minimum number of troops necessary within our own borders. Can't say how true it was, but given just a few short years later reservists were indeed being called up, given additional training and sent to reinforce regular (full time) units in various locations through the Pacific and I believe Afghanistan and Iraq.
Worth noting too that reservists have NEVER been required to leave our own borders, except for the couple of battalions sent to PNG in WWII and supposedly employed as labourers (of course two of those poorly trained and equipped battalions soon found themselves advancing across the mountains before conducting a desperate fighting withdrawal against 10,000 of Japan's best).

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Wow, I get it after Blackwater and the whole deal.

...

I am listening to "Blackwater: The rise of the words most powerful mercenary army" and its REALLY telling about the mindset of the people in charge at the time.

Just wondering what deal with Blackwater are you talking about?

[kalos72]

That was one of the reason for calling the mrec up Leg, that having to do it with Australian Nationals would deplete the local labor pool. So in that sense, maybe it would happen.

Blackwater and all PMC's with the US were given immunity from any action while under contract. The whole national military complex in the US sought to use PMC's as private military armies, not under Congressional control or oversight. Its really gotten out of control...

[Legbreaker]

Once the war starts in earnest though, many of those mercs are going to find themselves conscripted or recalled into service by their original nations.
The mercs that are left will be from non-combatant countries, most of which don't exactly have a reputation for producing well trained and disciplined soldiers.
Don't imagine many Western countries will be all that interested in using the dregs that are left for anything other than distant and low priority jobs - PNG is neither distant, nor low priority to Australia.