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#1
10-18-2018, 09:12 PM
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Yes, Ceylon, not Cypress. My mistake.
My thoughts are the Australians would only amount to about a company (assigned to security of the medical teams, etc - roughly the same as the commitment to Ruwanda) which would stay when Korea kicked off, but withdrawn the moment it looked like there would be a shooting war with Indonesia. The Canadians would probably have already left though and the Greeks & Italians would be nothing but a memory. Finland and Sweden probably wouldn't have contributed more than a few dozen people (perhaps a medical team or something like that) and they'd be gone as soon as the security teams started making noise about leaving. It's just possible these particular Canadians were the only ones who actually made it to Korea too - never made it all the way back to Canada perhaps. Four companies makes a reinforced battalion (would have to have a HQ plus admin/support elements as well, unless one of those companies were actually the HQ Coy...). Hmm, thinking of using them plus a battalion of NZ troops, plus the Gurka's to form a Brigade, perhaps under NZ leadership (seems like they're the only nationality with the necessary officers, etc available for the job). A third Brigade, mainly made up of British troops could round out the Division which would probably be under British command. This last brigade may be under strength right from the beginning, or keep the Gurkas with them and leave the Canadian/NZ brigade weaker. As the Korean front appears to be an extension of the 1950's war, it's highly likely to be a UN operation I think, so that final brigade could also be rounded out with the contributions of smaller nations (might even see companies from places like Samoa, South Africa, Philippines, even France might have a presence. Just my rambling thoughts. Feel free to pull it apart.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem 
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#2
10-18-2018, 09:39 PM
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I have a source on Indonesian Military equipment. Alas the source is politically biased and openly anti-American.
http://worldmilitaryintel.blogspot.c...post_2016.html
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#3
10-18-2018, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Anyone got any info on their numbers and organisation in the 90's? I don't want to go into great depth on them, but I do need to figure out what the Australians would have likely been up against and how effective they'd have been.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#4
10-19-2018, 03:58 AM
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Don't forget that until 1999, the Indonesian National Police were administered/commanded by the military. They also had an over-abundance of militias
https://fas.org/irp/world/indonesia/militia.htm No matter what I tried, I could not find any form of OrBat for Indonesia in the 1990s  so hopefully you can drag something worthwhile out of the following links.Global Security has a table of Indonesian army vehicles and aircraft in 5 year periods starting at 1990. Indonesia was severely lacking in modern equipment (compared to Australia) until the 2000s. https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...-equipment.htm This page "may" be useful, mostly because you can run a comparison between Australian and Indonesia by year (I saved the link on year 1995). Also be prepared for a hell of a lot of reading when you open up the definitions link. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-.../Military#1995 This document is dated 2002 but uses info gathered during the 1990s, it's the only doc I've found that has some info about the makeup of Indonesian land forces in the 1990s. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/ran...002/MR1599.pdf Neil Baumgardner's now defunct OrBat website for T2k has some info on Australia (no Indonesia however) but some of the links are dead. The info is typically from the late 1990s so might prove useful: - https://web.archive.org/web/20091019...Pentagon/9059/ But specifically this page: - https://web.archive.org/web/20090803.../9059/ADF.html Further reading: Indonesian military districts/commands https://fas.org/irp/world/indonesia/adri.htm World Factbook - Indonesia 1990 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_W...990)/Indonesia Indonesian armed forces at military wiki http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Indon...l_Armed_Forces US Army foreign military studies report 1995 https://fas.org/irp/world/indonesia/indo-fmso.htm Australian parliament - research paper: Indonesian Armed Forces https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam.../rp9899/99rp23 The Indonesian Military in the Mid-1990s: Political Maneuvering or Structural Change? https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstre...=1&isAllowed=y from this page: https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/54116
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#5
10-19-2018, 05:58 AM
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I do have a nuclear target list for Australia..I can refine it a bit, as Google Earth and Nukemap have made it possible to do some really advanced blast mapping.
__________________
Author of "Distant Winds of a Forgotten World" available now as part of the Cannon Publishing Military Sci-Fi / Fantasy Anthology: Spring 2019 (Cannon Publishing Military Anthology Book 1) "Red Star, Burning Streets" by Cavalier Books, 2020 https://epochxp.tumblr.com/ - EpochXperience - Contributing Blogger since October 2020. (A Division of SJR Consulting).
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#6
10-19-2018, 06:18 AM
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Throw it my way. Accepting all submissions at the moment.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#7
10-19-2018, 01:00 PM
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Right Legbreaker here is some information about equipment levels for Australian forces at the start of the Twilight War in 1996/1997. I haven't included any organisation such as brigades/regiments/battalions/squadrons etc as I figured you already have that information.
Australian Army Manpower: 30,300 (with 29,200 in Reserves) Available Manpower: 2,152,000 males aged between 18 and 32 (* in mid-1990's) Tanks Leopard 1A3 MBT: 92 Armoured Vehicles ASLAV Type I (25mm cannon) AIFV: 64 ASLAV Type II APC: 63 (* production ongoing) M113 MRV (76mm gun) AIFV: 53 M113A1/AS3/AS4 APC: 725 (* 205 held in storage) Artillery M198 155mm Towed Howitzer: 36 BL 5.5 inch (140mm) Towed Gun: (* 34 guns retired in 1984 but some likely held in storage) L118 (Hamel) 105mm Towed Gun: 111 M2A2 105mm Towed Howitzer: 142 (* most held in storage) Model 56 (L5) 105mm Pack Howitzer: (* 20 guns retired in 1992 but some likely held in storage) Air Defence Rapier SAM Launcher: 20 RBS-70 Portable SAM Launcher: 19 Engineer Vehicle BPz-2 ARV: 6 BRPz-1 Biber AVLB: 5 Infantry Support Weapons L16 81mm Mortar: 294 MILAN Anti-Tank Missile Launcher: 12 M-40A1 106mm Recoilless Rifle: 68 Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle: 597 Aircraft GAF N-22B Nomad Light STOL Aircraft: 13 PC-6 Light STOL Aircraft: 14 UH-1H Bushranger (armed) Helicopter: 6 UH-1H Helicopter: (* as many as 40 still operational or held in reserve) S-70 Helicopter: 39 AS-350 Squirrel Light Helicopter: 18 OH-58 Light Helicopter: 44 (* probably more held in reserve) Marine Craft LCM-8 Landing Craft: 16 LARC-5 Amphibious Cargo Vehicle: 85 Ordinance: MILAN Anti-Tank Missile: 120 delivered M712 Copperhead Guided Shell: 100 delivered Rapier-1 SAM Missile: 570 delivered RBS-70 SAM Missile: 100 delivered Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Manpower: 22,100 (with 1,500 in Reserves) The RAAF was a better trained and equipped air force than all of its neighbours in South-East Asia, and was supported by the US who gave it access to first class American aircraft and ordinance. In the early 1990's the RAAF bought F-111G (FB-111A) strike bombers which gave it a near strategic strike capability with a range of at least 4,000 nm with drop tanks. The F-111G could strike anywhere in Papua New Guinea and the Indonesian archipelago from the Northern Territory, and theoretically as far north as the south coast of China. The F/A-18 was also superior to any fighter used by Asian air forces at this time with the exception of Japan. The RAAF had a large number of air bases located across Australia of which 13 (Richmond, Williamstown (NSW), Darwin, Tindal (NT), Amberley, Scherger, Townsville (QLD), Edinburgh, Woomera (SA), East Sale (VIC), and Curtin, Pearce, Learmonth (WA)) had asphalt runways with a length of at least 2,000 metres. This allowed transports in the C-5 Galaxy and Boeing 747 Freighter class and also US strategic bombers to safely take off and land from them. There were also 35 civilian airports with runways over 2,000 metres including some in remote locations in the Northern Territory and Western Australia. RAAF Tindal Base in the Northern Territory was the main operational base for air missions north of the Australian mainland, being located outside of the cyclone zone and easy to defend. Combat Aircraft F-111G Strike Bomber: 15 F-111C Strike Bomber: 18 (* held in storage or retired) RF-111C Recon: 4 F/A-18A/B Hornet Fighter/Attack: 75 (* 13 held in storage) A-4K Skyhawk 2 Fighter/Attack: 6 (* leased from New Zealand) MB-326H Light Attack: 16 Support Aircraft PC-3C Orion Marine Patrol: 20 Boeing 707 Tanker: 4 C-130E Hercules Transport: 12 C-130H Hercules Transport: 12 Boeing 707 Transport: 2 DHC-4 Transport: 23 BAC-III VIP Transport: 2 BAE 748 VIP Transport: 2 Dassault Falcon-900 VIP Transport: 4 GAF N-22B Nomad Light STOL Aircraft: 2 Training Aircraft MB-326H Advanced Trainer: 60 BAE 748 T2 Trainer: 8 PC-9 Trainer: 67 CT-4/4A Trainer: 48 (* some held in storage) Helicopter CH-47C Transport Helicopter: 12 (* all held in storage) Air Ordinance AGM-84A Harpoon AS Missile: (* used by F/A-18, F-111G and P-3C Orion) AGM-142A Popeye-1 AS Missile: 51 on order (* for F-111G) AIM-7M Sparrow BVRAA Missile: 300 delivered AIM-9L Sidewinder SRAA Missile: 450 delivered ASRAAM BVRAA Missile: 400 on order BLU-109 2,000 Ib Hardened Penetrator Bomb (* used by F-111G) GBU-10 Paveway II 2,000 Ib Laser Guided Bomb: 100 delivered (* used by F-111G) GBU-12 Paveway II 500 Ib Laser Guided Bomb: 100 delivered GBU-15 Paveway 2,000 Ib Laser Guided Bomb: 100 delivered (* used by F-111G) Mark 82 500 Ib General Purpose Bomb Mark 83 1,000 Ib General Purpose Bomb Mark 84 2,000 Ib General Purpose Bomb (* used by F-111G) R-550 Magic-1 SRAA Missile: 550 delivered (* held in storage or retired) Royal Australian Navy (RAN) Manpower: 15,700 (with 26,000 in Reserves) Naval Bases Fleet Base East: Sydney, NSW Fleet Base West: Garden Island, WA HMAS Albatross: Nowra, NSW (* Naval air station) HMAS Cairns: Cairns, QLD HMAS Coonawarra: Darwin, NT The RAN had grown closer to the US since the Second World War, and particularly since the British withdrawal East of Aden in the 1970's. The US had also largely replaced Britain as Australia's principle arms supplier including ships and naval weapons before the Twilight War. The last RAN aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne was retired in 1982 and Australia had planned to buy the British HMS Invincible to replace it, but the outbreak of the Falklands War led to Britain retaining all of its carriers. The RAN retained an interest in carrier aviation and leased a number of New Zealand A-4K Skyhawk to train RAN pilots in jet aircraft in the 1990's, but nothing ever came of it before the start of the Twilight War. The RAN has a number of other small bases and communication and training establishments in the Sydney area, Canberra and Melbourne. The former small RAN bases in Adelaide, Brisbane and Hobart that closed in the early 1990's are likely to be still active in T2K. The RAN would also have access to New Zealand naval bases, Papua New Guinea naval facilities at Port Moresby, Milne Bay, Manus Island and Los Negros Island, and the British naval base at Hong Kong and facilities on the British island territory of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. The Australian refugee and illegal immigrant detention centres at Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean and Nauru in the Pacific Ocean might also be relevant to the RAN. Submarine Collins Class Submarine: 1 (* 2 more under construction, 3 more planned) Oberon Class Submarine: 5 (* 1 held in reserve) Principle Surface Combatants Adams Class Destroyer: 3 ANZAC Class Frigate: 2 (* 1 more under construction, 5 more planned) Leander Class Frigate: 2 (* 2 held in reserve) Perry Class Frigate: 6 Patrol and Coastal Combatants Attack Class Patrol Boat: 2 (* 2 held in reserve) Fremantle Class Patrol Boat: 15 Mine Warfare Bay Class Mine Hunter: 2 Huon Class Mine Hunter: (* 6 under construction) Bandicoot Class Minesweeper Auxiliary: 2 Brolga Class Minesweeper Auxiliary: 2 Amphibious Kanimbla Class LST: 2 Tobruk Class LSH: 1 Balikpapan Class LCT: 8 Support Ships Success Class AOR: 1 Westralia Class Tanker: 1 Protector Class Support Vessel: 1 Leeuwin Class Survey Vessel: (* 2 under construction) Other Miscellaneous Vessel: 7 Fleet Air Arm BAE-748 Trainer: 2 SH-60B ASW Helicopter: 16 Sea King Mk 50 ASW Helicopter: 8 (* held in reserve) OH-58 Light Helicopter: 3 AS-350B Light Helicopter: 6 Naval Ordinance AGM-84A Harpoon AS Missile: 229 (* some used by RAAF F/A-18, F-111G and P-3C Orion) RIM-7P Sea Sparrow SR SAM: 32 delivered RIM-66B Standard-1 MR SAM Missile: 540 delivered Mark 46 ASW Torpedo: 200 delivered Mark 46 Mod-5 NEARTIP ASW Torpedo: 100 delivered Mark 48 ASW Torpedo: 100 Mark 48 Mod-4 ASW Torpedo: 20 delivered Mark 54 ASW Torpedo: (* used on RAN surface ships and helicopters) MU90 ASW Torpedo: (*used on RAN surface ships and helicopters) Bureau of Customs Patrol and Coastal Combatants Bay Class Patrol Boat: (* 8 planned) Patrol Boat: 6 Aircraft GAF N-22B Searchmaster Marine Patrol: 10 Foreign Forces in Australia US personnel (270 USAF and 450 US Navy) at NW Cape, Pine Gap and Nurrungar New Zealand personnel (RNZAF training)
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#8
10-19-2018, 01:19 PM
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• 2nd Battalion, Grenadier Guards • 1st Battalion, Coldstream Guards • 1st Battalion, Scots Guards • 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards • 1st Battalion, Irish Guards (That's based on the pre 1991 orbat - 2/Grenadiers and 2/Scots were both placed into suspended animation at the end of the Cold War) I suppose you could use any of them. The canon orbat for the British Army is a mess that bears only the faintest resemblance to late 80's real life planning. Putting a couple of Guards Battalions into Korea, while not particularly realistic imho, isn't going to make it any worse than it already is. The alternative would be to use the Territorial Army (the British equivalent of the Army Reserve / National Guard for those unfamiliar with the term). GDW completely ignored the TA (I refer to my comment above) so you'd have a free hand in which units to allocate (IRL all TA Infantry Battalions were assigned to either Home Defence or BAOR reinforcement roles - the 2nd UK Division should have been 1 x Regular Brigade and 2 x TA Brigades - but I think there could maybe be a case for a couple of Battalions being retasked to other operations, e.g. Korea).
__________________
Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor's Guide to the United Kingdom
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#9
10-19-2018, 07:34 PM
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Thanks. All very useful input.
Just had a thought a moment ago that I'll probably need to include some basic information on the leadership, so with that in mind I'd love the Australian and New Zealander ex and currently serving soldiers, seamen and airmen to give me a few names of the officers they served under which might have come to prominence during the period. For myself my old battalion commander and RSM spring to mind as people of importance, as well as the father of my company clerk - he was a recently retired DSM in 94 who could have been drawn back in.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#10
10-19-2018, 07:37 PM
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I look forward to seeing what you come up with in the way of an ANZAC sourcebook for T2K, Leg. It might go some way to restoring my love for the game (which unfortunately has been largely gone for some time now).
__________________
 "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
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#11
10-19-2018, 08:55 PM
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What I had for the Ceylon peacekeeping force was the following in the East African Sourcebook
A Company, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment – Malindi • Manpower: 105 men • Vehicles: four Land Rovers, five Jeeps Australia had sent troops to Ceylon in 1993 as part of the peace keeping mission there. By 1995 they had been reduced to two infantry companies who were then cut off there with the outbreak of hostilities. During the next four years they fought rebels and Italian and Greek soldiers who were there as part of the mission. Finally in 1999 the surviving troops left on several commandeered sailing dhows and tried to make it to friendly forces. After a long and arduous voyage they were spotted by a patrol craft and were brought to Mombasa. The survivors were regrouped as a single company and were re-armed using captured Tanzanian small arms, machine guns and mortars. Now under British Army command, they have been tasked with supporting local Kenyan Police in Malindi and the area surrounding the city as well as the garrisoning of the San Marco Equatorial Range, which is an orbital launch platform previously used by Italy and is one of the few operational satellite communications stations still left in the world.
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#12
10-19-2018, 09:41 PM
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Absolutely the wrong unit to send.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#13
10-19-2018, 09:52 PM
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I have to wonder what the Australian Special operations were up to?
That and would Australians form Civilian defense units? I know that Mad Max is fiction but what would the Marauders be like? I know that you have had some issues with Bikies. Here in the US we hear about their homemade submachineguns and them stealing a half dozen LAW rockets.
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#14
10-20-2018, 08:49 PM
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I picked the 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment at random but obviously I had the wrong battalion - so what would have been the better battalion to have drawn those companies from originally?
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