Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[therantingsavant]

Thanks Vespers for the feedback and suggestions.

The mule's load always seemed off to me and I think it should be swapped with that of the horse but was writing RAW (rules as written) - I may add an edit in suggesting this "House Rule" quoting you however as it makes a lot of sense. (Edit: this has been inserted as a "sidebar" attributed to Vespers)

Hadn't thought of dogs actually, probably a whole separate post/article on the use of trained animals would be warranted if it's not been done before.

As for Conestogas, I'd always assumed the cart and wagon were the basic ones - heavier capacity rail-car wagons of 5 tons are briefly mentioned in Going Home which would not be dissimilar except the low friction of the rails allows less horses. I'd wonder if oxen would be more appropriate for the heavier wagons however. Maybe it needs a vehicle card actually.

Your overland travel rationale makes sense - I just found it odd as most systems have faster overland travel for mounted groups (although it's usually based on higher movement rate IIRC). Wayne has pointed out that there's a hit modifier for fast speed that a galloping rider can take advantage of so the tactical speed is really what makes the difference, even if dismounting is needed to be effective with automatic weapons. I still think there should be a benefit for melee combat while mounted or charging with a lance ruling but it's not that common a scenario to be fair. I will have to check out Jame's rules but that simplification makes sense based on what I thought.

I'll try and edit in some of these suggestions I think...

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by therantingsavant

Thanks Vespers for the feedback and suggestions.

The mule's load always seemed off to me and I think it should be swapped with that of the horse but was writing RAW (rules as written) - I may add an edit in suggesting this "House Rule" quoting you however as it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, I saw that you were working off the data cards, which was why I made sure to caveat it as a criticism of the rules, not the article.

Hadn't thought of dogs actually, probably a whole separate post/article on the use of trained animals would be warranted if it's not been done before.

I'm not aware of any, and it would be a useful thing. I thought of it because I've talked with a couple Iditarod mushers about their experiences, and a Canadian exhibit on mail sleds mentioned the load limits for pack dogs.

As for Conestogas, I'd always assumed the cart and wagon were the basic ones - heavier capacity rail-car wagons of 5 tons are briefly mentioned in Going Home which would not be dissimilar except the low friction of the rails allows less horses. I'd wonder if oxen would be more appropriate for the heavier wagons however. Maybe it needs a vehicle card actually.

I agree that the existing carts are more similar to regular farm carts or the Escort Wagon. I just figure someone in PA would try to bring Conestogas back at some point. I also had the information for them since the Army Transportation Museum has one as an example of Revolutionary War transport.

Oxen will pull around their own body weight at a speed of roughly 2 miles per hour for about 5 hours per day. A draft horse pulls basically the same amount, but for up to 8 hours, and is slightly faster at around 3 miles per hour. So an ox cart will cover about 10 miles per day in one period of travel, while a horse cart will be around 24 miles per day in two periods of travel. However, the horses are less sturdy and require more care, and most of them will be slightly smaller than an ox (although Shires are right up there with cattle in size).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

@ therantingsavant
Are you considering looking into other pack animals? Depending on the location there could be camels, llamas, alpacas, goats and so on (and even elephants). I know yak and water buffalo have been used as pack animals but they're probably similar enough to oxen for the sake of the rules.

As for draft animals, dogs have been mentioned but there could also be camels, goats and apparently llamas have also been used as harness animals.

Other than that, I've nothing to actually contribute to the discussion but just wanted to say thanks to both of you (savant & Vespers) for all the great information.

[Olefin]

Very much in line with the 1st Kenyan Mounted Cavalry Regiment that is in my East Africa Kenya source book - i.e. they fight as dragoons using the horses for transportation and then dismount and fight as infantry - i.e

Tactics

The Regiment fights as dragoons, using the horses for transport but not taking them into battle if it can be helped. On at least three occasions, due to ambushes, they have been forced to fight from horseback, with serious losses in horses and men each time. When in combat, one man from each six is tasked to handle the horses while the rest deploy to fight.

Usually the Regiment deploys without the heavy weapons squadron for patrols, only using that for missions where the heavier firepower will be needed, as the caissons slow them down and have broken down in rough terrain before.