Telephone Networks (and alternate uses for them)

[Raellus]

It's an interesting concept, one that I haven't ever considered- because I didn't think the telegraph was in use in the 1990's (or '80's even). How realistic is it, though?

How extensive was the pre-2000 telegraph network? Who used it, how often, and what for?

Even if a widespread telegraph network existed c. 1997, or could be brought up and running after the TDM, it would still be very vulnerable to disruption. During the American Civil War, both sides routinely cut telegraph cables and/or cut down telegraph poles. All you need is an axe.

[Olefin]

Western Union was still using it for wire transfers up until the late 2000's and the as late as 2006 they were still sending 20,000 actual telegrams a year in the US. India still had an extensive network as late as 2013.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/last-te...-sent-july-14/

The wires are still there for sure in the mid-90's to 2000 time frame for the V1 and V2.2 - they were never taken down in many places. The question is how many breaks would there be and getting trained operators. Its actually one thing that the producers of Independence Day were surprised to find out - i.e. that the idea of the military communicating by telegraph in the movie was actually factual.

[Olefin]

most likely the network would have gaps in it for sure - i.e. there is no way the wires that were still standing survived nukes going off and the general lack of maintenance that happened after the TDM would have not helped the situation - but there would still be remaining wires that could be used, especially in areas that didnt have a lot of damage from nukes - plus of all the things that you would think people would loot old phone wire and ceramic insulators arent very high on that list

FYI I havent looked at other countries - does anyone know the status of any networks in Australia or the UK for instance in the mid to late 90's?

[swaghauler]

We need to be clear here, there are NO telegraph lines in America in 2000. Western Union (and everyone else) are sending those telegrams over the ANALOG phone lines. The important thing to remember about Analog Phone Systems is that they carry a small electric charge to power the various analog phones tied to the system. This is why analog phones still work when the power goes out. Those phones WOULD BE DAMAGED by an EMP effect because of the large surge of power that came through the lines. Other analog phones could easily escape that damage if they weren't physically connected to the grid when the EMP hit. Thousands of phones sitting on store shelves would be perfectly serviceable. In addition, FIELD TELEPHONES are also analog and are DESIGNED to be used with the civilian telephone grid. Since a field phone has batteries to generate the small electric charge needed to carry the signal, you could hook one straight to a "dead" (ie unpowered) phone line and STILL USE IT. Once you fixed the line's surge protection that was damaged by EMP (much easier than laying telegraph lines), there is NOTHING stopping you from powering the lines with a portable generator (the system requires a very small amount of voltage) and using civilian phones just like normal. It may take a while to get the civilian grid running again but it is NOT a very difficult proposition at all.

[swaghauler]

Here's a little info PA puts out in defense of the tax they put on phone companies to subsidize rural phone networks.

75% of PA's rural communities still have analog phone lines. These systems are integrated into the digital phone grid using digital converters housed in the old "switch houses" located in small towns and rural areas.

Our "switch house" (owned by AT&T) is a 20ft square block building located near the town of Conneaut Lake. This is also the source of power for the analog lines as there is 220 coming into the building and you can hear the step-down converter's fan running all of the time (cooling the whole system no doubt).

[Olefin]

I have seen old telegraph poles standing by rail lines in the North East and South - are those using analog phone lines or are they still the old telegraph lines?

So given that information Swaghauler the disruption in communications is more the disruption in satellite communications and digital phones - but analog phones would still work (as long as there werent breaks in the phone lines themselves)

that would mean that at least locally and regionally you should be able to still communicate as long as you working analog phones

[Olefin]

so given that information this thread should be called analog telephone networks or communication then - would that be a better description of what I was trying to say as to how communications would be possible even after the TDM?

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I have seen old telegraph poles standing by rail lines in the North East and South - are those using analog phone lines or are they still the old telegraph lines?

So given that information Swaghauler, the disruption in communications is more the disruption in satellite communications and digital phones - but analog phones would still work (as long as there weren't breaks in the phone lines themselves)

that would mean that at least locally and regionally you should be able to still communicate as long as you working analog phones

The disruption occurs from THREE sources...

1) Fried telephones that got surged when the EMP came down the lines. This partially saves the lines because the telephone "grounds out" the surge. The phone is killed but the line will be spared as a result of this grounding. This is why you are advised to NEVER talk on an analog telephone during a lightning storm. YOU ARE THE GROUND!

2) Loss of grounding in periodic junctures along the line. Since the lines carry a small electric charge to power the phones, there are grounds every so many miles as well as booster stations to keep the current flow steady. These would be "shorted" during a power surge. In fact, they sort of act like "surge suppressors" by channeling excess voltage out of the system to mitigate damage.

3) Switching Stations. These replaced the old "operator system" with computerized switching that allowed you to call regionally or nationally. These stations also contained the power boosters to keep the lines current stable. These would be HEAVILY DAMAGED by EMP due to the number of phone lines coming in and the fact that many switchers were already operating at or above recommended capacities to provide the needed communication services. Here is where the real work would be.

A typical phone system will have one switching/booster substation and perhaps three or four connector boxes (which also act as boosters) in a 10-mile radius. You've probably seen the boxes situated along the road near intersections. They are about 3ft tall by 4ft wide and collect the lines coming from side roads before sending a larger line up the pole they are mounted on
Some have no visible pole because the lines are underground. This commonly done in cities. In fact, cities may place the switching/booster stations and the lines in underground vaults. PGH PA does this as well as Cleveland and Philly.

I hope that helps

Swag.