Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[Legbreaker]

It would seem your experience differs then.
Personally, fighting order was usually around 35 kgs (machinegunner) - I rarely carried less (perhaps 25kgs on rare occasions when acting as a rifleman). At the time I weighed 65kgs.
Marching order was a around 50-60kgs.
We almost always carried our own packs everywhere as there simply weren't the vehicles available.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It would seem your experience differs then.
Personally, fighting order was usually around 35 kgs (machinegunner) - I rarely carried less (perhaps 25kgs on rare occasions when acting as a rifleman). At the time I weighed 65kgs.
Marching order was a around 50-60kgs.
We almost always carried our own packs everywhere as there simply weren't the vehicles available.

Same. I was just a rifleman though, so slightly less weight for me than for you.

Among Australian infantrymen, probably the most common career-ending physical problem seems to be wear-and-tear on the knees, almost certainly it seems to be from carrying those heavy loads for years and years.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

Among Australian infantrymen, probably the most common career-ending physical problem seems to be wear-and-tear on the knees, almost certainly it seems to be from carrying those heavy loads for years and years.

Indeed. Knees were a major (but not only) factor in me getting out.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I am was infantry and these figures are not. I carried huge loads of distances and guess what I was in no condition to fight when I reached the end of my route.

remember there are three loads that you see dismounted soldiers carry

Battle Load: Ammo (about 5-6 mags total 200 rounds) and food+water (one meal and two canteens) additional items could include belted ammo, grenades and maybe M-72, helmet and body armor are worn

Extended Load: Battle load with a small pack (with additional food, water, and ammo) and e-tool will also be carried I also carried a ranger blanket

Administrative Load: This is the soldier's rucksack and is not carried into battle due to its size and weight, additional food and water are carried along with sleeping gear and a spare uniform and sundries. Rucksacks are left in an assembly area with the units non-combat troops.

In game terms, PC that are dismounted will become fatigued if they carry too much as will pack animals that why we load limits

Now I have never been Infantry, but during my time in the military I was a Tanker, Combat Engineer, Combat Medic and EOD. When I was a trigger puller my battle load as you called it was 85lbs or more this only included primary weapon, ammo body armor, and a single canteen. At the time I was about 180lbs myself. We did not have what you called the Extended load, our next up load was full rucksack and between the two it was a majority of my body weight.

[rcaf_777]

My point earlier

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

My point earlier

I guess maybe I am just dense, as I am not getting your point. I do not think anyone is saying that it should not in an ideal world be that. What I think we are saying is that in the real world it is not even close to that. But your point seams to be that everyone knows this is the standard and everyone follows it? Right now it sounds like you are the only one who's experiences have followed the "recommended" limits?

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The 32% of body weight is certainly a good recommendation and it can easily be seen for the need of such a restriction in training. If you have a good logistics train then it's certainly viable in wartime as well.
In practical terms though, it's not workable for some military forces simply because they do not have the same sort of logistics capability as any number of better supplied militaries e.g. many of the NATO forces.

In Australia we have a small population and thus a small military that has to cover a landmass that's about the same size as Brazil. Nearly all of Western Europe fits into the landmass of Western Australia alone - if we overlay all of Australia over Europe, Australia stretches from the UK to Turkey.

We don't have the logistics support to allow us to travel freely over our continent and so we also cannot make best use of recommendations such as the 32% of body weight. In the Australian Army, it's long been the practice that if you can't carry it in with you, you're going to have to do without it - hence my comment earlier about the Army wanting pack horses, not race horses.

In Australia we also carry far more water than most NATO/WarPac militaries typically carry. We get issued four water bottles and standard practice is to carry two on the webbing and two on the pack (or webbing if operational requirements dictate it) plus we also carried a collapsible water carrier of about 2 litres capacity as well as a Millbank water filter bag.

This is normal procedure, you are expected to carry all four water bottles for typical tactical operations. If the climate is expected to be hotter or drier, then you carry more water. So on for example, an overnight patrol into the more arid regions of Australia each soldier might be carrying up to 6 litres of water as a minimum amount because we cannot expect to have vehicles/aircraft doing regular resupply.
I mention this because it's been shown in this thread that the load carrying experience between various nations have been quite different and obviously, the difference is dictated by the different requirements in the various nations. While I agree that the 32% recommendation is a good practice, it's not achievable in some countries due to their operating environment.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I guess maybe I am just dense, as I am not getting your point. I do not think anyone is saying that it should not in an ideal world be that. What I think we are saying is that in the real world it is not even close to that. But your point seams to be that everyone knows this is the standard and everyone follows it? Right now it sounds like you are the only one who's experiences have followed the "recommended" limits?

I think we carried the "recommended limit" just wearing our LBE and K-pots. The funny thing was, after a while, it just felt natural to carry a hundred pounds on a road march. It's amazing what you can "get used to."