OT Things are getting hairy in the Middle East

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by lordroel

Why not some F-22s hunting F-14s.

Some F-22s hunting ancient F-14As.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Some F-22s hunting ancient F-14As.

Except according the September 2018 issue of Air International pages 58–59
the number of combat ready Tomcats in Iran was still low (seven in 2008) and the Washington Post reported on 26 January 2012 that Iranian F-14 fighter jet had crashed in country's south, and both pilot and co-pilot killed. So I would call the use of F-14 by Iran questionable

In July 2007, the remaining American F-14s were shredded to ensure that any parts could not be acquired by Iran

[RN7]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Except according the September 2018 issue of Air International pages 58–59
the number of combat ready Tomcats in Iran was still low (seven in 2008) and the Washington Post reported on 26 January 2012 that Iranian F-14 fighter jet had crashed in country's south, and both pilot and co-pilot killed. So I would call the use of F-14 by Iran questionable

In July 2007, the remaining American F-14s were shredded to ensure that any parts could not be acquired by Iran

As of 2018 the Iranian Air Force had 43 F-14's in service, and possibly more.

After the Iranian Revolution Iran’s ability to acquire parts for the F-14 was limited. While Iran developed the manufacturing facilities to service the simpler F-5E and kept the F-4E Phantom flying through a combination of reverse engineering and acquiring parts on the black market, this was not an option for the more complex F-14. A severe shortage in AIM-54missiles after the Iran-Iraq War further limited the F-14's usefulness in Iranian hands, and only a fraction of the fleet remained operational for several decades.

However new technologies including 3D printing has allowed Iran to more effectively reverse engineer parts the F-14 and AIM-54 missile. Most of Iran's F-14's having seen well under a decade of service, some under five years, before a lack of parts placed them in storage, these airframes are essentially brand new and with the supply of new parts can be fielded in considerable numbers. Iran's F-14 fleet has reportedly received over 250 modifications and upgrades, including new radars, cockpit displays, electronic warfare suites and other avionics. When the almost new airframes are properly modernised, likely with Russian or Chinese assistance the result will most likely be the most capable fighter in the Middle East.

Also the Iranian Fakour-90 AAM bears a strong resemblance to the AIM-54 Phoenix.

In the late 1980's Iran allegedly sent the AIM-54 and an entire F-14 fighter to the Soviet Union for study in exchange for assistance in developing such a missile. The Soviets operated the similar R-33 AAM missile with an original range of 120km. This was gradually enhanced to a 300km range and the Soviets/Russians were well placed to aid Iran in developing an indigenous variant of the AIM-54 as relations between the two countries improved and a strong defence partnership developed from the late 1980s.

The Fakour-90 not only matches the capabilities of the AIM-54 but improves on them. Iran puts its range at 300km with Western sources estimating a range of around 220km, compared to the original AIM-54's 180km range. The Fakour-90 also retains a guidance system capable of providing a radar lock independently of the launch aircraft’s own radar. This capability is lacked by modern Western combat aircraft and most Russian ones, which makes Iranian F-14's potentially highly lethal in BVR. Travelling at over Mach 5 and striking with the same degree of precision if not higher than the AIM-54 did, the missile can target enemy fighters well beyond their retaliation range. The Fakour-90 has at least three times the range of American AIM-120B which have a range of 75km, and at least twice the range of the more advanced AIM-120C. The Fakour-90 is also likely to have inherited the Phoenix's hypersonic speed, making it faster and longer ranged than the AIM-120 deployed by Saudi and Israeli F-15s. In the event of a regional war with Saudi Arabia the Iranian F-14's can potentially shoot down Saudi fighters without leaving Iranian airspace, and if the Iranian F-14's cross the Iraqi border they can even target aircraft over Israel.

[RN7]

The tension in the Middle East is now going off on an arc all of its own.

Since Trump pulled US forces from Syria the Turkish invasion of Northern Syria is underway with widespread attacks on the pro-American Kurds. There is also a real danger that ISIS prisoners in jails guarded by the Kurds could be set free, in fact some have already escaped.

Russia has moved its forces into some of the areas evacuated by US forces and the Russian Army is now are acting as a buffer or peacekeeper between Turkish and Syrian forces.

Turkey is member of NATO and is invading another country were American and Russian military forces are based. The Turks even launched an artillery barrage at some US forces still in Syria!

The most worrying aspect of all this is the fact that 50 B61 nuclear bombs stored at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey are now effectively hostages of the whims of the Turkish President. Turkey is also talking about developing its own nuclear forces.

........And Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel are not even directly involved.

[Legbreaker]

Read elsewhere. Haven't had time to verify it, but sounds plausible, even likely.

"Some points on the Turkish invasion of Syria against the Kurds

A plethora of inconvenient details...
1) both NATO and the UN knew of Turkey’s plans to use its military against the Kurds.

2)the Kurds belong to the PKK (in turkey) and the YPG, the PKK Branch in Syria.

3)the PKK and YPG are communists

4) the PKK is marked as a terrorist organization by the US and internationally.

5)the PKK and YPG have been at war with Turkey since 1978

6)the UN and NATO approved turkeys plan to attack the PKK and YPG... back in September! Which means that this has been in the works for some time and the “World Government” has known about it for quite some time.

7)the US has binding Treaty obligations to Turkey

8)we only had 1000 troops in Kurdish YPG held Syria and had they defended against Turkey, who had NATO and US blessings, we would have been in violation of the NATO treaty

9) NATO, by its obligations to Turkey under nato treat membership rules, would have been obligated to eject the US from NATO and declare it an enemy state and then militarily support turkey (that means nato would have supported turkey logistically and militarily attack US forces.

10) it was Obama and HRClinton who set up this half assed alliance with Kurdish Communist terrorists because their original plan backfired.

11)the original plan involved the Benghazi disaster where HRC and Obama, after illegally overthrowing Ghaddafi, raised Libyan armories and shipped them, via the CIA, to Turkey (run by erdogan, a radical Islamist) who then gave the weapons (and official US comma and medical supplies) to Daesh(aka Islamic State/IS) radical terrorists to overthrow Assad (who crossed obamas red line).

12)Daesh/IS are also
Likely the ones who used wmd to kill Christians in Syria that got blamed on Assad

13)Turkey supported Daesh

14)Turkey has been buying Russian weapons systems and threatening US forces for years and violating nato rules and the Obama admin never countered it... until they made a deal with the Kurdish PKK/YPG to counter the mistakes they made arming Islamic radicals with Libyan weapons under H Clinton’s and Obama’s pro “Arab Spring” policies.

15)Europe/the EU/UK/France have all known, via Nato and the UN, that Turkey was going to make this military move for over a month... and approved it.

16)no other EU country, nor NATO itself, would assist the US in defending the Kurds.

17) no other country would take, after repeated requests by Trump and the US, the terrorist prisoners being held in YPG Kurdish Territory, nor would they deploy troops to takeover the prisons.

18)Erdogan/Turkey has been threatening to release 3.6 MILLION Syrian refugees into Europe unless he got his way... and they let him have his way but all are now criticizing trump for pulling our Sons and Daughters in the US military out of harms way. A harm they won’t stop, won’t send their own into stop and a harm they approved!

Now, anyone here wanna tell me how the hell Trump was supposed to violate Nato Treaty obligations or let 1000 American lives get killed as an OFFICIAL NATO ALLIE WITH NATO APPROVAL ATTACKED A KNOWN AND DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATION LAUNCHING ATTACKS ACROSS THEIR COUNTRY FOR THE LAST 41 YEARS???

And while you’re at it, please explain how an Obama/Clinton/Globalist policy disaster is somehow Trumps fault?

When and why the hell did we start working with Communist Rebels and then feel obligated to defend them?

How the hell is this Trumps fault?"

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Read elsewhere. Haven't had time to verify it, but sounds plausible, even likely.

I don't know if the UN, NATO or anyone else outside of Trump's inner circle knew about this in advance but Trump seems to be back stepping a bit and making some serious threats to destabilise the Turkish economy. If the US knew that Turkey was going to invade Syria in advance would they not have moved the 50 nuclear weapons they have in Turkey elsewhere. Also the Europeans are not acting like they knew about it in advance. France and the UK are threatening sanctions and the British government may send the SAS Regiment into Syria to capture or kill ISIS fighters who escape from the jails.

[Legbreaker]

The entire world has known for years Turkey was going to step over the border into Syria. They've got previous form in doing just that!
This whole messy situation is the result of a lot of political decisions going back decades.