The ANZACs in T2k

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Citations, please.

Also, look at the death rate in countries that were early implementers of similar protocols (like South Korea) v. those who dragged their feet (like Iran and Italy). It's not even close.

Sorry, Leg- I'll stop hijacking your thread now.

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Ok Raellus here you go - also have a link to his paper which is in Hebrew and two articles that go into depth on his findings -

https://www.dailywire.com/news/israe...e-agency-chair

https://townhall.com/columnists/mari...ttern-n2566915

https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-is...after-70-days/

[Raellus]

Not that it will change anybody's minds, but for you non-Americans out there, Daily Wire is an "opinion journalism" site and Ben Shapiro, an "opinion journalist".

Here's the tag line from their Google search entry:

"Led by the incomparable Ben Shapiro, The Daily Wire is a hard-hitting, irreverent news and commentary site for a new generation of conservatives."

Sounds super credible when it comes to science news.

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[StainlessSteelCynic]

Israel doesn't seem to be a good choice to test whether social distancing is or is not having an impact on infection rates simply because the country is small in landmass and large in population.
Even ignoring such things as traditional large families among certain groups being a potential cause of infection spread, the population density is 401 people per square kilometre and it's a country that heavily relies on imports for many resources.
In that situation, I can easily believe that social distancing may not be carried out as effectively as it should. Ideally, Israel should be a good choice to test the theory but in practice, I wonder how stringently they are applying social distancing rules?

And also Leg, my apologies as well for wandering off the thread topic

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Sorry, Leg- I'll stop hijacking your thread now.

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Yes, it would be nice, and interesting as this conversation is, for the discussion to continue here https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=6055

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Not that it will change anybody's minds, but for you non-Americans out there, Daily Wire is an "opinion journalism" site and Ben Shapiro, an "opinion journalist".

Here's the tag line from their Google search entry:

"Led by the incomparable Ben Shapiro, The Daily Wire is a hard-hitting, irreverent news and commentary site for a new generation of conservatives."

Sounds super credible when it comes to science news.

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Raellus since when is the Times of Israel a right wing news site which I also linked to? And I can post the English translation of his paper if you wish. Please don’t let partisanship cloud discussion of scientific papers here or elsewhere. And the professor in question is hardly a partisan figure who pushes junk science.

Leg I will post the English translation on the quarantine thread.

[Raellus]

I'd like to publicly apologize to Olefin for the sarcastic tone of post #272, and to Legbreaker for continuing to hijack his thread after I said that I would stop.

Gentlemen, I am sorry.

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[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Gentlemen, I am sorry.

Meh, we all do stupid things sometimes and text only communication is very limiting when it comes to subtleties and tone - very easy to misunderstand the true intention of the writer. Forget about it.

Got my grubby hands on a bunch of government and defence reports from the late 90's and very early 2000's yesterday. Only had time to skim through them so far, but it looks like my writing and conclusions are VERY close to what the experts 20+ years ago were saying would happen if there was a conflict between Australia and certain neighbours. They've danced around specifically naming any particular country, but given the geographics and military capabilities involved, it's obvious who exactly they were talking about.
They've also mentioned a few locations of interest I'd totally forgotten about as being strategically important - will have to include them in the book!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Got my grubby hands on a bunch of government and defence reports from the late 90's and very early 2000's yesterday. Only had time to skim through them so far, but it looks like my writing and conclusions are VERY close to what the experts 20+ years ago were saying would happen if there was a conflict between Australia and certain neighbours. They've danced around specifically naming any particular country, but given the geographics and military capabilities involved, it's obvious who exactly they were talking about.

Not those bloody Mussorians again is it?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Not those bloody Mussorians again is it?

Nah, they're further north. It's the Kamarians.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Ah ha! Those sneaky devils!




On a serious note, I'd forgotten the Kamarians. I always remembered the Mussorians for some reason - old age dulling my memory, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

[Raellus]

The focus of T2k is fixed squarely on the ground, but this may be of interest to our Aussie friends and/or aerial warfare enthusiasts.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...erial-wargames

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[StainlessSteelCynic]

The Pitch Black exercises are sometimes co-ordinated with large scale Army exercises so that the various HQ elements can practice air-land operations.
I was in the land element of one such exercise in 1991 and it was quite a change from our normal infantry training environment to have mass air transport, recce, AEW&C aircraft, fighter, attack and aerial refuelling assets available (as friend and foe).

[Raellus]

Of note to some of the earlier discussion in this thread, it's interesting/ironic/uncanny to see photos of the RAAF and Indonesian Air Force playing on the same team.

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[Legbreaker]

Yes, there has been some military cooperation in the last few decades, a small fact which has made it quite challenging to explain the conflict between the two groups in T2k. Fortunately I suppose we had the independence of East Timor in the late 90's to use as a sort of template or what "could" have been. In that particular case however the Indo's went quietly (sort of) and there wasn't a global conflict keeping the attention of bigger players elsewhere.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Of note to some of the earlier discussion in this thread, it's interesting/ironic/uncanny to see photos of the RAAF and Indonesian Air Force playing on the same team.

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Yes indeed. It was very interesting to see the lead photo of that article with F/A-18s and Su-27s flying together and NOT being the usual suspects, i.e. from the USA and Russia or Finland and Russia.

[Olefin]

Question for you Leg - does anyone think that the Soviets went after the Marsden Point Oil Refinery in New Zealand either with nukes or conventional weapons - it was built especially to provide the following for New Zealand - but most of what it processes comes from Australia -

around 85% all of the country’s jet fuel
around 67% of diesel
around 58% of all petrol
all fuel oil for ships

That refinery still being in business could keep the Australian Navy in business as to having fuel for whatever ships are still operational after their war with Indonesia

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Given that (as far as I remember), none of the books mention New Zealand in any significant manner, it would be up to the Referee to decide if such important parts of NZ's infrastructure are still operational.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Given that (as far as I remember), none of the books mention New Zealand in any significant manner, it would be up to the Referee to decide if such important parts of NZ's infrastructure are still operational.

Not even in passing.

In the grand scheme, Marsden Point is a very, very small player. Sure they supply the bulk of the countries fuel, but when you've got a population of only 3.8 million (comparable to just the state of Oklahoma, 1/3rd of Belgium, or 1/10th of Poland), that's not exactly much is it....

Then take away crude imports (which comprise 100% of the oil processed), as well as the inability to adequately repair (lack of parts from other countries) the refinery should there be damage, normal wear and tear, or even just the requirement to change systems to allow for a change in what oil is still available for processing, and NZ is already in a poor shape fuel wise.

Then we throw them into war, as well as an obligation to support several Pacific island nations....

Does Marsden Point NEED attacking? No, especially since "All local oil production is exported as the New Zealand refinery is not suited to processing it."
Experiments into refining locally sourced oil did not start until 2007 from a field that wasn't even discovered until 2003.

Could the refinery be adapted to use the limited amount of local oil? Sure, but it requires equipment and knowledge which aren't readily available in New Zealand, and after about the middle of 1997 (the absolute earliest a need to switch may be identified) will be impossible to source from elsewhere.

Can the refinery process the local oil without the equipment and knowledge?
Yes, but at a greatly reduced efficiency which will greatly effect output (even in peacetime it wasn't sufficient for the countries entire needs).

So what does this mean for the RAN? No fuel coming from NZ that's for sure! (ok, MAYBE an insignificant trickle for the attached NZ naval and ground forces...maybe.)

On a related note, the Oceanic War (as I'm starting to call the Indonesian invasion) is still ongoing in 2000. More low level and less intense, but fighting is still happening, particularly in the West and Gulf regions and to a lesser extent in Eastern Sepik and Madang.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

11/28 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
Now if memory serves me correctly, Targan was 11/28 so he would be the one to ask because I"m working from second-hand info.
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy (I'm uncertain of this) - Irwin Barracks, Karakatta, Perth
A Coy: -
1st Platoon - Bunbury
2nd Platoon - Albany
3rd Platoon - Katanning
I think HQ A Coy was in Bunbury but again, I am not certain
C Coy: -
I don't know but a platoon sized unit was based in Rockingham and I think this might have been the core of C Coy.
D Coy: - Irwin Barracks
I am not certain of the setup with 11/28 because at that time, some Reserve Infantry units were being strengthened with one Regular Army company

? Field Ambulance (don't recall designation), was formerly at the Artillery Barracks in Fremantle but then moved to Irwin Barracks sometime in late-80s or early-90s.

Ummm... bloody hell, it's all such a long time ago!

To the best of my recollection, there was talk of 11/28 getting a Regular Army company when I was there in the early 90s, but I don't believe that had occurred by the mid-90s.

And I'm pretty sure the Field Ambulance unit was based at Karrakatta (Irwin Barracks) when I was there, but I don't remember the designation. 7th Field Ambulance?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

Ummm... bloody hell, it's all such a long time ago!

Tell me about it! It's a very different army to when we were in.

[Olefin]

The Korean Sourcebook is the first "official" mention of New Zealand as to any involvement in the war - even though its not canon frankly it should be - that is one place where I DO NOT agree with Marc Miller -

If you look there you have the 28th Anzuk Brigade that has two contingents from New Zealand

1st Battalion, Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment

Medical/Logistics personnel

By 2001 that Brigade has only 300 men left so at most probably 30-50 NZ survivors still in Korea

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'm of the opinion that if New Zealand was able to keep the Marsden Point facility operating, they would be likely to keep most of its production for New Zealand or at least as a trade commodity. However, as we know, a large percentage of the material processed at Marsden Point was imported from Singapore, Australia etc. etc. so that means they probably haven't got much to trade with anyway.

Given that New Zealand imported a lot of items necessary for any modern First World/Western country (and not just crude oil), the Twilight War is going to leave them in the same sort of crap that Australia is in. However for New Zealand it would probably be worse because they are a small nation with a small population and it's unlikely anyone with the shipping capacity (aside from Australia) is going to risk sending ships for what would be a very minor trading profit.

I think further discussion is likely to get more in depth about New Zealand without a focus on the military side of things so it probably warrants a thread of its own.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

I think further discussion is likely to get more in depth about New Zealand without a focus on the military side of things so it probably warrants a thread of its own.

I'm happy to keep that discussion here - it is absolutely relevant to the ANZACs (at it's core really) and certainly relevant to the book (definitely leaning towards the title covering Oceania more than just Australia/New Zealand).

[Ewan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm happy to keep that discussion here - it is absolutely relevant to the ANZACs (at it's core really) and certainly relevant to the book (definitely leaning towards the title covering Oceania more than just Australia/New Zealand).

Any idea when the book will see light of day. Thanks

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I think Leg had something ready for final drafts but then the talk of 4th Ed. came along and disrupted everything.
I gather that it's a hell of a juggling act trying to keep a sourcebook compatible across editions and it I reckon Leg is probably waiting to see what 4th edition does to Australia before he decides on the final version. He had said earlier that it would be compatible across 1st and 2nd editions but then 4th came along so (without going back to read this thread) I think he said it would be compatible with 4th but obviously we have to wait for 4th to drop before we find out what they did to the Oceania region.

[Legbreaker]

Yes, it was supposed to be 1st, 2nd, 4th ed compatible and probably still will be. It has indeed been delayed because of 4th for reasons I'm sure will become clear in the coming months.
When will it be published? I really can't say at the moment - it's very much dependant on external events out of my control.
Meanwhile, keep throwing ideas and information at me. Always room for more input.

[Louied]

Adf 2002-2003........

[Louied]

Some more Files I have........

[Louied]

New Zealand (I have posted this before in another thread)........

[Louied]

Royal Australian Artillery........