Greece v. Turkey

[Olefin]

Not often you see a discussion here that has someone in the regular media discussing it as well - thought I would link to it if anyone wants to read it

https://townhall.com/columnists/vict...point-n2575877

Not pushing any particular political point or view - just adding to the discussion

[ChalkLine]

I think it's far more likely Turkey sat out the NATO-Warsaw Pact conflict because they had a lot of local fighting to do in their own region, just look who they have on their non-Warsaw Pact borders and who their regional allies are and were.

Turkey's involvement in Cold War NATO was always extremely transactional and by the mid 1980s they were focusing on things away from the northern borders. I don't know if you guys know any Greeks or Turks, there's a big diaspora for both here, but the hatred they have for each other I've only seen equaled by the India-Pakistan thing. I mean, the Serb-Croat loathing doesn't get like this and that's jaw dropping.

Come the Twilight War you could expect those two to be like the problem the Nazis had with the Romanians and the Hungarians, they had to place German or Italian troops between them or they'd start killing each other in preference to fighting the Soviets. I'd say it'd take about twenty minutes into the war before the whole shitshow blew up again and they were clawing at each other.

[Olefin]

Greece withdrawing from NATO never made any sense to me in the context of either version of the game. Getting pissed off and going after Turkey ok - that I can see - the Turks started it after all. But basically signing the country's death warrant by going after the US Navy - that was dumb. Especially considering how exposed they were to attacks from Israel or the NATO nukes that were based in Turkey.

Having Turkey and Greece have their own little private war (especially after the Soviets nuked the hell out of Turkey and evened the odds) is a lot more logical

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I suppose the designers were trying to fill in all the gaps, that is to say, they needed to have the entire world devastated so that national governments were no longer the power they used to be (if they even still exist after the war) and so they tried all sorts of things to reduce each nation to a post-apoc level.

Not trying to make excuses or defend their decisions, I agree that the treatment of some Mediterranean nations should have been better.
Like others here I find it hard to figure out why Italy would attack it's allies and go hell for leather into Austria and why the Greeks thought they stood a snowball's chance in hell of taking on the USN in the Med. It doesn't make any sense that I can figure out.

[Legbreaker]

I suggest that Greece attacking the NATO convoy was more symbolic than anything, an effort to show the world they were SERIOUS about their declaration. It's quite likely they were expecting their prior allies to back down and try something else rather than risk casualties in a conflict they didn't really have a lot of skin in.
It was a gamble which if successful would have paid huge dividends. Unfortunately the result was somewhat different to the expectations/hopes.

[Raellus]

Greece is going on a bit of a defense spending spree. I reckon Turkey will respond in kind.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ns-with-turkey

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[micromachine]

The sad thing about the spending spree(s) is that it is being done by administrations that are hovering on the brink of being insolvent. Both have purchased on both sides of the iron curtain, and will continue to do so as long as credit and production offsets are offered.
Would be very interesting to see what equipment is in the arsenal or each country by 2030, and how much of it they actually produce themselves "in house".