The Best That Never Was 2 (Prototypes)

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As an interesting "what if", another round suggested for the M202 that did not get past the trials stage was the XM96 RCR (Riot Control Round) with a CS gas filling.

http://www.designation-systems.net/d...m74rocket.html

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

As an interesting "what if", another round suggested for the M202 that did not get past the trials stage was the XM96 RCR (Riot Control Round) with a CS gas filling.

http://www.designation-systems.net/d...m74rocket.html

Well, for huge riots it might be useful, it's definitely not a "less-than-lethal" round. Someone could die if they get hit by the rocket.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Well, for huge riots it might be useful, it's definitely not a "less-than-lethal" round. Someone could die if they get hit by the rocket.

Apparently it was developed for use in South-East Asia, Vietnam specifically.
Read into that what you will but I'll jump to the assumption that that implies use against rioters who are potential Viet Cong

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Well, for huge riots it might be useful, it's definitely not a "less-than-lethal" round. Someone could die if they get hit by the rocket.

There are a fair amount of "less lethal" rounds that have the possibility of killing.
For example there are flash bang grenades (not all types, but some) that when they go off can have some parts of them flay away with enough force to kill. Rubber and wood projectiles can kill if not used as designed (most need to be skipped into the target). So it could have still been labeled less lethal.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by CDAT

There are a fair amount of "less lethal" rounds that have the possibility of killing.
For example there are flash bang grenades (not all types, but some) that when they go off can have some parts of them flay away with enough force to kill. Rubber and wood projectiles can kill if not used as designed (most need to be skipped into the target). So it could have still been labeled less lethal.

Even if used as designed, the various baton rounds can be lethal because their irregular shapes mean they can't reliably be targeted when skipped. The BMJ published a study in 2017 looking at 25 years of incident results that calculated rubber bullets are lethal roughly 3% of the time. Another 15.5% suffered serious injuries such as ruptured organs or permanent blindness.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

As an interesting "what if", another round suggested for the M202 that did not get past the trials stage was the XM96 RCR (Riot Control Round) with a CS gas filling.

http://www.designation-systems.net/d...m74rocket.html

According to what I learned during my Special Weapons training, the M202's CS rocket had a truly fatal flaw. In the right concentrations, CS gas can become flammable. The first rocket fired could effectively deliver its payload but follow-on rockets' exhaust had a habit of igniting a good spread of CS gas. Nobody in the Army wanted to be the guy who set a crowd of protestors on fire. Thus the rocket was never officially adopted.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

According to what I learned during my Special Weapons training, the M202's CS rocket had a truly fatal flaw. In the right concentrations, CS gas can become flammable. The first rocket fired could effectively deliver its payload but follow-on rockets' exhaust had a habit of igniting a good spread of CS gas. Nobody in the Army wanted to be the guy who set a crowd of protestors on fire. Thus the rocket was never officially adopted.

The incendiary round itself also had a fatal flaw. A clip had to be handled, let's say, carefully. the nose end had a tendency to crack if mishandled and cause the gunner to immolate himself. We always kept that in mind at the range. I can't see the Army fielding a weapon that fragile and I've seen a clip dropped and it didn't crack (though we put it in the dud pit).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

All of which makes me wonder about that article supposing that the M202 was used in Afghanistan.
Given the delicate nature of the rockets, I wonder if US forces were actually using 40mm thermobaric rounds (they started to be available from 2003) and the article writer not being familiar with military tech jumped on the M202 as the explanation?

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

All of which makes me wonder about that article supposing that the M202 was used in Afghanistan.
Given the delicate nature of the rockets, I wonder if US forces were actually using 40mm thermobaric rounds (they started to be available from 2003) and the article writer not being familiar with military tech jumped on the M202 as the explanation?

It's from an inventory listing. A leaked 2007 list of inventory in Afghanistan states that there's quantity 3 of NSN 1055000213909 in-country. That's the NSN for the M202A1 Flash. I didn't find any of the three NSNs I know of for M74 rockets, so I'm thinking it's possible someone made a typo somewhere.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

It's from an inventory listing. A leaked 2007 list of inventory in Afghanistan states that there's quantity 3 of NSN 1055000213909 in-country. That's the NSN for the M202A1 Flash. I didn't find any of the three NSNs I know of for M74 rockets, so I'm thinking it's possible someone made a typo somewhere.

Given the size of that stock number, a typo would be pretty easy to make!

[pansarskott]

I just learned that it's not WP in the ammo, it's burning metal. But it seems to behave like WP, so I guess the rule books can be excused

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M202_FLASH

FLASH = "Flame Assault Shoulder.", nice backronym if it's true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHuDYOVAQYs

https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/M202_FLASH

[cawest]

just found this on B-1 challenger.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...the-b-1-bomber

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by cawest

just found this on B-1 challenger.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...the-b-1-bomber

That really helps right about now, since I'm updating my US Bombers page.