4th ed T2K

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

I know this is an alternate history but given that the Point of Divergence is only 1991 we can still draw some general conclusions as to how world history would proceed.

A final point I want to make in this rant...in real life after the Soviet Union actually collapsed, NATO did not accept Polish membership until 1999 and the Baltic states waited a further 5 years until 2004. To do so numerous trade and monetary concessions were made to Russia. Even then this was very controversial in both Russia and NATO. Imagine if the hardline led Soviet Union still existed...did EVERY leader of a NATO nation suddenly forget their continent’s long history as well as the concept of “spheres of influence”? NO NATO would not have risked nuclear Armageddon to protect the Baltics or even Poland. I still think even the far better V2 timeline with a Coup Attempt POD is far fetched but at least it makes a bit of sense. This new Timeline on the other hand stretches far into the realm of Alien Space Bat insanity.

This is why I used Poland as the "flashpoint" when I wrote my own alternate history for V2.2. I had Russian-backed rebels creating chaos in Poland and the legitimate Polish government receiving aid from Germany, the Uk, and the US. The situation was very similar to what Russia ACTUALLY did in the Ukraine and I wrote my history in 1999. Imagine my shock at seeing Russia do EXACTLY what I predicted she'd do to prevent Poland from joining NATO. I then had the other members of the Visegrad Group join the fray. That was the spark that brought ruin to Europe.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

This is why I used Poland as the "flashpoint" when I wrote my own alternate history for V2.2. I had Russian-backed rebels creating chaos in Poland and the legitimate Polish government receiving aid from Germany, the Uk, and the US. The situation was very similar to what Russia ACTUALLY did in the Ukraine and I wrote my history in 1999. Imagine my shock at seeing Russia do EXACTLY what I predicted she'd do to prevent Poland from joining NATO. I then had the other members of the Visegrad Group join the fray. That was the spark that brought ruin to Europe.

The problem is that the writers of V4 are leftists. You could tell immediately when you read the draft of the new timeline. West was a horrible leftist pache of Trump with a bit of Bush tossed in. While it is tones down in the Alpha the elements are still there.

They don't view the Soviets or the Chinese as aggressive badguys. They think of the Soviets in the back of their mind as the good guys. Thus the Soviets get to do things that they should not be able to do at all.

Mind you that Thomas himself lied to the Discord group when he said that this would not reflect current political events.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

Mind you that Thomas himself lied to the Discord group when he said that this would not reflect current political events.

I believe he honestly can't see it because of his own bias.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I don't know if any of you chaps are on Facebook, I'm planning on doing a livestream regarding these quite frankly gross distortions of the T2k plot/worldbuilding committed by Free League. You don't have to follow me/friend me, the livestream will be viewable by all.

https://www.facebook.com/bill.silvey...61730122691959

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I believe he honestly can't see it because of his own bias.

Same on Facebook when I warned against current political biases creeping into the setting. Thomas claimed to be totally aware of this potential issue and was doing everything to prevent it. That didn’t happen.

It appears that the problem arose primarily from Chris Lites, the person listed as the primary author. His political biases are readily apparent on his “witty” Facebook page. It’s fine to have biases, everyone does. But given that he looks too young to even have been alive during the Cold War, I’m guessing that he has nothing but these biases to go on when writing about the Cold War. And I think you’re right, Thomas who almost certainly has similar biases just didn’t even notice. When you live in an echo chamber it’s very hard to hear anything beyond it.

[Legbreaker]

Chris has possibly pissed me off more than anyone else. Not from any one thing he's said or done, everything's just added up since I first became aware of him several years ago (when he first "leaked" news of the game and refused to put me in touch with the company, or even pass on my contact details).
Tomas has been relatively easy to deal with for most non-game related things, but trying to get him to understand what we were concerned about in the drafts was like pulling teeth - with a wet noodle. Extremely frustrating and ultimately totally ineffective.

It's Spartan Time! Two G&Ts in, here comes the wisdom!

The great irony is that all the left believe the right is in an echo chamber and all the right believe the left is in an echo chamber. Because yeah, social media AI feed us the meals we want to eat.

Listen, you guys who were pre-Alpha and are still upset, consider this - You already moved the needle. If this is better than it was before, congrats! That's truly an accomplishment. I mean really, over the Internet, you helped someone else move from an extreme position you absolutely disagreed with to something closer to the middle, that maybe you hate just a touch less? Mark your f-ing calendars; on the Internet, in the echo chambers previously mentioned, that's not something that normally happens.

What do we do when we move the needle but don't get it to where it needs to be? We keep pushing. We enlisted allies (I know, I know.. but yeah, everyone needs allies) and we try to move the needle some more.

Unless you gain some spectacular and applicable insight into how to move the needle by over-analyzing someone else's political leanings, it's probably a better use of everyone's time to gather input and feedback and offer it in as-a-constructive manner as possible.

You've already had some success and this project is still in alpha. Don't fold now, the game is just getting started.

[Lurken]

Originally Posted by Spartan-117

You've already had some success and this project is still in alpha. Don't fold now, the game is just getting started.

That point of view is nice to hear.