Perma-bans for some people?

[RN7]

I've been off the board for a while and I've just read this. I've known Olefin on this board and other boards for a long time (15 years), in fact there are some members on this board I've known through the 2300AD groups as far back as the 1990's. On this board I've had a few heated debates with Olefin over the years, but he has never given me any reason to complain about his behaviour or have I ever felt that he should be banned for anything.

I've had heated discussions with Olefin, Legbreaker, Raellus and many others, but I have never felt that anyone should be banned. In fact there has only been one member who's behaviour I have ever complained to the moderators about and that wasn't Olefin. But I didn't want that guy banned for it, but he no longer contributes to this board so good luck to him whatever he is up too.

Olefin has contributed a lot of good work to this group, in fact he wrote a very good sourcebook. He has strong opinions and a good knowledge base, and its common knowledge that he doesn't take criticism too lightly. But bans and censorship is not a good thing with the fertile minds of the members of this board. There are no children on this board and where will the censorship end? Free discussion means free discussion end of!

If someone can't handle criticism or gets easily offended then really they shouldn't be getting into it with Olefin or others in the first place. There are many other threads to contribute to where the discussion is a lot more civilised, and a there is a huge resource base that any new member can look at to get themselves acquainted with T2K on the T2K Forum Thread Map thread.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by RN7

There are no children on this board and where will the censorship end? Free discussion means free discussion end of!

You are absolutely correct, RN7. Our forum's members are expected to behave like adults here. Petulance, ranting, and recalcitrance are childlike behaviors.

We don't censor ideas, but we do ask that members share their ideas within the parameters of our forum guidelines. In other words, it's less about what is said than how it is said.

We have forum guidelines for a reason- to make sure that discussion here is civil, constructive, legal, on topic, and apolitical. If members adhere to these guidelines, then the free exchange of ideas becomes the rule, not the exception. It is only when a member violates these guidelines, and ignores multiple moderator warnings, that a ban is even considered. This was the case with the member in question.

No one is saying that Olefin hasn't made valuable contributions to this community. But no one gets a free pass. The decision to ban Olefin was not taken lightly, or carried out in haste. He was given due process- after several days of deliberations, all three mods and the admin voted in favor of the ban. He is welcome to return to the forum when his ban expires; he need not fear a third ban if he abides by the forum guidelines.

There are plenty of discussion forums where people are free to insult one another, tear each others' work down, share files illegally, and spew political rhetoric at one another. This is not one of them. If someone finds this forum's guidelines for behavior too constrictive, members are free to go elsewhere.

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[RN7]

As I stated I've been off the board for a while so I missed this.

I've been looking for comments made by Olefin and Spartan-117 and I can't find many so I can't comment on this. Have they been deleted?

I did see Olefin's comments in the 4th ed T2K thread. I have to say that I've seen worse on this board and he wasn't the only one who had an issue with the 4th ed. I haven't read up on the 4th ed yet so I have a neutral opinion of it at the moment.

One guy gets a 21 day ban and the other gets a two month ban. Why not give them equal treatment if you have to ban them.

I must look at the 4th ed to see what all the fuss is about. If I have any issues with it I'll be sure to let you know.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by RN7

I've been looking for comments made by Olefin and Spartan-117 and I can't find many so I can't comment on this. Have they been deleted?

No, they're still there. We're not in the business of censorship, if there's any way that it can be avoided.

Originally Posted by RN7

I did see Olefin's comments in the 4th ed T2K thread. I have to say that I've seen worse on this board and he wasn't the only one who had an issue with the 4th ed.

I have to respectfully disagree with your first statement. The only time I can recall seeing worse, it too led to a ban. As to your second statement, other members that were being critical of 4e were either doing so constructively and/or civilly (i.e. without name-calling or other pejoratives), OR they adjusted their approach to align with the forum guidelines when asked to do so by the mods.

Originally Posted by RN7

One guy gets a 21 day ban and the other gets a two month ban. Why not give them equal treatment if you have to ban them.

We deal with forum infractions on a case-by-case basis. The two cases that you mentioned were different. One-size-fits-all punishment is rarely justice. This is a sloppy analogy, but would a small-time graffiti vandal and a serial arsonist deserve the same punishment?

Originally Posted by RN7

I must look at the 4th ed to see what all the fuss is about. If I have any issues with it I'll be sure to let you know.

You are free to praise or criticize 4e as you see fit. In the case of the latter, all we ask is that you do so constructively and without insulting the creators.

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[RN7]

Originally Posted by Raellus

No, they're still there. We're not in the business of censorship, if there's any way that it can be avoided. -

Well I can't see hardly any of Spartans-117 comments from where I am so I can't comment on that. I can see a lot of Olefin's comments. They are highly critical and some are over the top but he does have the right to be critical. I've criticised some of the old GDW sourcebooks in the past and nobody ever said anything about it.

Originally Posted by Raellus

I have to respectfully disagree with your first statement. The only time I can recall seeing worse, it too led to a ban. As to your second statement, other members that were being critical of 4e were either doing so constructively and/or civilly (i.e. without name-calling or other pejoratives), OR they adjusted their approach to align with the forum guidelines when asked to do so by the mods. -

Well if you want to spent the next year going through all the old post back to the beginning I'm sure you will find some gems.

Originally Posted by Raellus

We deal with forum infractions on a case-by-case basis. The two cases that you mentioned were different. One-size-fits-all punishment is rarely justice. This is a sloppy analogy, but would a small-time graffiti vandal and a serial arsonist deserve the same punishment? -

Comparing this with an actual crime where you could be sent to prison is not something I want to be really hearing Raellus.

Originally Posted by Raellus

You are free to praise or criticize 4e as you see fit. In the case of the latter, all we ask is that you do so constructively and without insulting the creators. -

Well thanks for your permission to discuss this I suppose. This board is becoming loads of fun now isn't it.

[Targan]

This conversation is coming very close to being entirely unhelpful. Opinions have been expressed, and that's fine. But when it crosses the line into the forum rules getting breached, this conversation ends and private warnings will be issued.

Step back and take a few deep breaths.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As the person who started this thread in the first place, specifically to question the permanent bans as a potential punishment, I don't think there really is more to discuss.
I personally felt that the person being punished and the principle of the punishment needed to be re-examined and I believe that has been done to most people's satisfaction.
I don't believe there is a lot of value in continuing this discussion so my thoughts are that if this thread continues to cause drama, then the mods should lock it.
There have been divisive posts deleted in the past so if it is necessary to do so, I don't have any objection to this thread being deleted either.