Adventure idea

[rob]

I like watching train videos and one of them gave an idea for The Project: During the War, all trains that were running stopped because of the EMP. A container train stopped in spot were the railroad ran through a cut in the surrounding terrain. Over the years, dirt, debris and other crud filled the cut where the railroad ran, covering the containers up to the top, and over the tops of the containers. A party from the MP accidentlly stumble over/across the containers. After a quick dig, they finally realized WHAT they are on and all sorts of stuff can be inside one or more of the containers.

[mmartin798]

It would be fun to see what happens as the team digs into the lumber car that is in a low spot there the leaking nitric acid and sulfuric acid from different tank cars is collecting.

[nduffy]

The barter and trade ideas! also just finding cool shit in general. The food stuffs are crap, but the other goods could be used as good will jesters, barter, trade. Got my juices flowing. Oh what if it had ammo, medical items or parts for engines. Even the trains themselves are valuable as scrap or for parts. Hehe,, what if they had crated Harley's or other motorcycles or ATVs? what about cars? The brain is going!!

[nduffy]

So this also brings into question,, what about steam engines, like the Big Boys? There are several steam engines still running and also in various states of restoration. Imagine how valuable they would be as an asset, also rail road repair equipment...

[gamerguy]

Steam engines are massive SKILLED worker maintenance hogs. That is why they are no more. That and if not done exactly right they are very dangerous. Sitting buried for decades they should be considered toast. Sorry I love steam engines too but this is not practical.

Vehicles are not shipped like they were in WWII. I have seen a few you tube videos of guys buying war surplus stuff (old motors, etc.) which were bought from the war department. Sealed and filled with preservatives, etc.. Just clean them up, fuel and off they go. Not anymore.

Bikes, cars, etc. are intended to take a week or two to reach their destination. Minor assembly and fill with fluids. Bikes, snowmobiles, etc. are sitting on thin pallets (wood or maybe cardboard), have a light wood frame and stapled plastic sheet over that. None of that will live out the first year. Then they start breaking down into their constituent parts, iron, carbon and lots of oxides of the above. Tires are shipped bare now, not even sealed in plastic cocoons. You might get a skid with some crappy shrink wrap which, again, dies after a year.

Same for cars. They are shipped in auto car carriers which are light and the sides have heavily perforated thin metal. Maybe to save weight, maybe so when being loaded light gets in to help the drivers see where the previous car is. So in any cave in they will fill with dirt very fast if not in all probability be crushed first.

Actually canned food stuffs would be the most likely to survive if not subject to humidity or moisture. That or dried and individually packed foods like jerky (if truly dry), dried fruit, etc.. Of course that falls flat if a few are broken open by the landslide and rats can get in.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by gamerguy

Steam engines are massive SKILLED worker maintenance hogs. That is why they are no more. That and if not done exactly right they are very dangerous. Sitting buried for decades they should be considered toast. Sorry I love steam engines too but this is not practical.

Even if you try to say it is a recent construction, the infrastructure for oil, grease, fuel, and water to be maintained all along the route coupled with the horrible thermal efficiency of a steam locomotive makes even that a hard sell. Then you still need to have decent rails between locations. If trains did make a comeback, they would most likely be diesel, but constructing the electric motors becomes the limiting factor here. Sad to say, in a post-apocalyptic world animals, cars and trucks make the most sense for transportation.

[Matt W]

if you have rails, they are more efficient than roads. And it isn't TOO hard to convert a self-propelled vehicle to run on rails.

In terms of "buried" treasure, I suggest the following

1. Chemical Fertiliser.
2. Coal.
3. Some well-wrapped Amazon "Return Pallets". (mostly junk, of course, but some interesting tools and luxuries could be included. Maybe the players can think of a use for a roomba, or a pressure cooker, or a toy drone?)
4. Wind Turbine blades and a transformer
5. Paper. The essential component for (re)building a civilisation. If this is wrapped in plastic it should survive being buried.

[gamerguy]

OK, I gotta reply.

1.Degrades over time until it goes Boom. See Beirut 2020.

2. Sounds reasonable.

3. Batteries and electronics not protected long term. Gonna be crap. Of course given it is from Amazon that basically is what you get. Thousands of copies of the entire series of Gilligan's Island on DVD.

4. Possibly but those blades are VERY long. They were quite the obstacle around here about a decade ago as they were trucked about. Think connected at the truck and three trailers length the tips were mounted to a trailer buggy. I figure about 100 feet long. I am no expert but I think the average rail car was no where near that long. BUT I know older passenger cars were very long so on dedicated rail cars passing through areas with very gentle curves may work. But, one tight curve and it all goes to hell.

5. Now you are thinking. Maybe very special archive paper to justify the cost of the method of sealing the paper reams. We are not talking a whole container of Staples cheapo copy paper. I think that would deteriorate as fast as food stuffs.

[Ash247]

Fertilizer if stored properly (dry, cool) has a very long self life, 30 or 40 years at least.

The fertilizer in Beirut was stored in a warehouse lose which allow it to absord moisture over six years, and next to explosives and a large store of fireworks. Workers using welding tools started a fire which ignited the fireworks which in turn spread to the fertilizer setting it off.

The beirut example is a good example of how not to store fertilzer.

[gamerguy]

Originally Posted by Ash247

Fertilizer if stored properly (dry, cool) has a very long self life, 30 or 40 years at least.

The fertilizer in Beirut was stored in a warehouse lose which allow it to absord moisture over six years, and next to explosives and a large store of fireworks. Workers using welding tools started a fire which ignited the fireworks which in turn spread to the fertilizer setting it off.

The beirut example is a good example of how not to store fertilzer.

That all sounds reasonable but we are talking (1st edition) of 150 years later. Also if caught in a cave in I think cool and dry can go out the window in a hurry. I can see some of a load not being affected.

I know you guys are looking to make scenario ideas, this is just my anal "but reality says!" self popping up. I am also the guy who keeps stating "where is the rubber coming from" every time someone says 150 years in a leaky warehouse tires will be fine or easily produced. Or when the KFS is said to be manufacturing brand new Abrams tanks I keep asking where the rare earths needed will come from. Bad me.

[Ash247]

Totally agree that fertilizer after 100+ years in train tunnel would probably have leached away in the damp conditions by now.

Just wanted to make the point that it can be stored long term in the right conditions.

Damp train tunnel being wrong condition for most stuff.

[Matt W]

Not all fertiliser is explosive Ammonium Nitrate. Some is Potash.

Potash is mined in Canada and (generally) transported by train in sealed railcars. LOTS of railcars. It's not uncommon for a single train to have 100 or more potash railcars. Some of the cargo might survive - even after 150 years.

Rail companies are very proud of their ability to transport wind turbine blades.
Example: https://www.bnsf.com/ship-with-bnsf/...nd-energy.html. There's a video on YouTube of a train carrying turbine blades and making a 90 degree turn. [the video's 15 minutes long, so it's not a FAST procedure, but it is possible]

Stuff from Amazon: It's amazing what can be made from old plastic. Even old DVDs and CDs (from Amazon, or anywhere) can be repurposed. The internet is full of craft ideas for them. For instance, they can be used to make mirrors. Does the local EmDee need a dental mirror? Does the village need reflectors for street lights? Has your Trade Pack run out of hand mirrors?