Design Discussion: Barriers to New Player Entry for T2k

[unipus]

Even harder since we're living in the age of disinformation now, and people have come to wildly different conclusions regarding the very same events. Hard to have common ground on some topics of plausibility. For instance, it seems an issue some folks had about the V4 background was that it portrayed a somewhat incompetent US President/leadership/response. Some people apparently consider that implausible. In the interest of not starting a political discussion, I'll say no more.

But basically, history wouldn't be very interesting if it wasn't full of unprecedented events. Things that happened that seemed impossible that, in retrospect, become completely normal. That Suez canal thread was just posted. Probably most people before last year would have thought it would be pretty silly to say that a single ship would accidentally block the Suez canal for weeks, causing a global response, economic shift, and supply chain problems. And yet.

Lots of things that happen within military planning, day-to-day operations and workplace etiquette, and internal politics similarly boggle the mind... unless you've seen them firsthand. A lot of this stuff is cultural and really really hard to sell in any other way. So I agree with you there that the GM's hand in providing that detail and flavor is a big factor in running an enjoyable game, but it mostly depends on everyone's expectations. And I still think that's the same in most games. You either do the work to present a realistic, believable world, or you don't. Whether that's research or clean-sheet invention. I can certainly see the difference in games I've run or played in where I've been able to invest the time and effort to do that versus other ones where I tried to wing it, or didn't really understand the setting.

[Olefin]

FYI blocking the Suez Canal is already part of the V2.2 canon - ie the Soviet nuclear strike at one end of the canal blocked the exit due to the sunken ships and other wreckage for several years

And I agree that a game that is realistic must have its details and it’s timeline much better thought out than a fantasy RPG - there aren’t any dragons or giants running around but there are a hell of a lot of people that have fired an M16 or AK. Or who have been part of a helicopter assault. Or for that matter people like me who have worked on US equipment and know that the Bradley and M1 can fire on the move and should have no penalty at all as long as their fire control and stabilization systems are working to do so while Soviet tanks can’t do that.

[Raellus]

Fair point, but I reckon that the segment of the RPG market with hands-on military experience is considerably smaller than the one without.

Any game designer that intentionally markets its product primarily to ex-military consumers risks losing out on a much larger market. That doesn't seem like the best long-term strategy for sustaining sales.

And a game that actually favors real-world experience that isn't universal sort of self-imposes barriers to players that lack said. For T2k, some potential players may not want to play with military vets because they don't want to feel ignorant, or be patronized by players with more applicable real world experience. I played with and Ref'd for the same combat vet and he could be a bit of a know-it-all at times. Although I appreciated some of his knowledge and wisdom, the "well, actually..." bit got old really quick.

Add in IG rank, and a game could end up getting pretty un-fun pretty darn quick.

With fantasy or sci-fi games, assuming no one has more experience with a giving setting or rules system, everyone pretty much starts out at the same starting point.

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[mpipes]

I've had the personal opinion that by 2000, most people still alive have a weapon around someplace. The big problem is cartridges for the gun they have. In the US, there are a dizzying array of gun calibers that will be floating around, while in Mexico or even Europe the selection will be somewhat more limited, which should make cartridge scrounging at least a bit easier.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Ever heard of the term "busman's holiday"? There's a YouTuber who does a lot of railway simulator games - whose day job is a train driver. Indeed, much of the heritage railway community is filled with active or retired railway staff.

As for barriers to entry; the character creation process isn't exactly fast.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK

Ever heard of the term "busman's holiday"? There's a YouTuber who does a lot of railway simulator games - whose day job is a train driver. Indeed, much of the heritage railway community is filled with active or retired railway staff.

As for barriers to entry; the character creation process isn't exactly fast.

Well, the chargen process suffers from not having as large amount of automated tool support that D&D has, but it also isn't as complicated.

The single biggest challenge is the generation of equipment. A tool that generates a random amount of kit with options to decide some things being guaranteed (e.g. a us army character who is enlisted in infantry branch always gets an M-16 or M-4) would be helpful.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Well, the chargen process suffers from not having as large amount of automated tool support that D&D has, but it also isn't as complicated.

I fully agree the Dndbeyond system works really well for 5e. Wish I had found it when I first DM'ed

On the other hand this is the T2k13 char gen process



I thought about building a character maker (why else build a flowchart), but at a minimum providing something like this for a map (with decisions and page numbers) is something every complicated system should do.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by kato13

I fully agree the Dndbeyond system works really well for 5e. Wish I had found it when I first DM'ed

On the other hand this is the T2k13 char gen process



I thought about building a character maker (why else build a flowchart), but at a minimum providing something like this for a map (with decisions and page numbers) is something every complicated system should do.

Yep - it *looks* complicated. But the only really hard part is gearing up, which, other than the random tables, offers no advice other than "don't exceed your allotted amount of stuff."

A list of "this is all the standard issue kit a soldier in this army gets issued" would go a long way.

[Tegyrius]

Kato, when you diagram it like that, all I can say is, "it made more sense inside my head at the time."

- C.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Kato, when you diagram it like that, all I can say is, "it made more sense inside my head at the time."

- C.

Hey if I didn't like it would I have done this?

I don't care about the number of steps but the jumping around in the book was a little confusing. I know publishing has to be flexible, but after the final print is approved something with page numbers like this could be useful. That is why I built it.