Tall Ships of Twilight 2000

[cawest]

Originally Posted by Targan

The Duyfken replica would have just missed out on being part of the original T2K timeline - she was launched in 1999.

maybe not. she had her keel laid in mar 97. this could be used as a propaganda tool. it also was built in the Duyfken Replica Ship Yard in Fremantle, Western Australia. It is not like this place would be working on modern warships. So she might have fight under a new flag, but she might have launched. without fuel this might force it to be finished and launched.

[Ursus Maior]

For fans of the new edition and a going home style campaign: Here is a chance for survivors of 2MARDIV to build their way out and have a Spanish Main style adventure. It appears, the Swedish navy thought somewhat ahead back after Napoleonic Wars:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...c5e9bHjpTzQNQU

[Olefin]

there are multiple sail powered cruise ships that definitely would be impressed into service with the various navies as transports or by pirates

Example would be the Sea Cloud - https://www.seacloud.de/en/

Sea Cloud was rebuilt in 1978 to be a 64 person sailing cruise ship but during WWII she was an armed US Coast Guard weather ship - she has a diesel engine but she can cruise with sails only

You also have the Wind Star, Wind Song and Wind Spirit sail powered cruise ships (also with diesel engines but capable of cruising with the sails alone) and the Club Med 1 (which became the Wind Surf in 1998)

From the 3rd volume of the Fanzine

In November of 2000 the Wind Song, a 5300-ton sailing cruise ship sailed into Pago Pago for vitally needed repairs. The territorial governor saw an opportunity and seized the ship from its previous owners. The repairs have finally been completed in April 2001 and he intends to use the ship to sail to Hawaii to bring the two Samoan infantry companies based there home, along with ammunition and weapons to be able to defend the territory. He is planning to send a cache of vitally needed working computers and electrical parts along with it for trading for the weapons and if need be the men themselves.

The Wind Song depends on her sails for propulsion and is only being provided enough alcohol fuel to operate the galleys and a few lights. The governor has armed her with two recoilless rifles and two heavy machine guns and a single 20mm gun from the Buttonwood. Her interior furnishings have been stripped out to make room for bringing he two infantry companies back to American Samoa and to haul enough food and water for the trip which will take at least eighteen days round trip. The computers which work her sails are still functional, allowing a minimal crew to man her, with most of her complement being soldiers to man her defenses.

[Ursus Maior]

Until right now, I wasn't even aware of these sailing cruise ships. Those are quite interesting! The largest two, Club Med 1 and Club Med 2 (the latter only completed in 1996) have a gross tonnage of almost 15,000 ts and are listed having a crew of around 214 and a capacity of 340-386 passengers, mostly in twin-beds. The staterooms look easily convertible to two double-racks or even six bunks in total. If you stack up in the state rooms in such a way and reduce the crew, i. e. the steward department, you can embark a light marine battalion.

Certainly they would have to make due almost without any land vehicles, but four medium sized barges can hang from davits. Deck space is a problem though, with only a small forecastle and not much space on the quarterdeck (i. e. the stern). I really don't see room for recoilless guns without some rebuilding, to be honest, mainly since the huge back-blast would make them dangerous to operate near walls and sails. Also, the range is not great on these guns, so Bofors 40 mm in single or dual mounts may be a better alternative. Light guns up to 30 mm as well as the venerale Bofors also enjoy the benefit of not needing barbettes, i. e. they could be bolted directly on decks without punching through the construction. That makes retrofitting much easier.

One probably could raze the light structures on Star Deck - mainly a glass superstructure housing a restaurant - in order to create more deck space for crans, boats, vehicles, containers and light artillery. A great feature of both ships however is the water sports platform, which is essentially a miniature well deck/dock and can be used to disembark marines quickly for boarding parties etc. There is also room for small-craft.

The big question for these ships constructed by Société nouvelle des ateliers et chantiers du Havre will be, how there computers have weathered nuclear war. The ships cannot be sailed manually without significant modifications to the standing rigging. The masts are not meant to be climbed easily and the crew complement does not support a traditional sailing crew, without significantly reducing the number of passengers. So, if the computers are fried, e. g. by EMP, those ships become slow steamers, 10 to 12 knots with engines only, compared to 15 kn under combined (sailing and steaming) propulsion.

Deckplan: https://www.windstarcruises.com/Blan...f_10-22-20.pdf

[Ursus Maior]

Other tall ships available during the 1990s are Sea Cloud (ex-USCGC Sea Cloud, ex-Hussar V) and SV Mandalay (ex-Hussar IV). Both ships began their lives as private yachts of E. F. Hutton of the financial services company, served in the USCG during World War Two, end ended up as cruising ships in the 70s and 80s, respectively. They are fitted for 60-80 passengers each, although Mandalay is significantly smaller (585 GRT compared to 3,077 ts), and make 14 kn (Sea Cloud) and 16 kn (Mandalay) respectively, presumably under combined propulsion.

A couple of light guns could be installed on their main decks and in fact medium artillery guns of (3"/50 DP) had been in use on Sea Cloud during World War Two. When it comes to supporting a marine complement, the two smaller ships fare far worse than Club Med 1 and 2, though: only two light davits, no (pseudo-)well deck and no larger deck space for containers, vehicles or additional barges or speed boats.

But hey, I bet the Caribbean, Polynesia and the African West Coast would tremble with fear if some of these ships with a combined marine battalion would start raiding the area.

What a great setting for a campaign.

[Olefin]

The question for the computer controlled sailing ships would be more where they were during the nuclear phase - the ones that were in the South Pacific would most likely have no EMP damage at all - no nukes in their area at all - versus ones that might have been in the Med or anywhere near Europe or places in the US that got nuked

The Wind Song that I wrote up in the fanzine was in the Pacific during the nuclear phase in Polynesia - i.e. no where near any nukes at all - so her computers work. Would be a great basis for an adventure to need to get working computer equipment for one of her sisters - they would be a real asset for anyone who had control of one of them

[Gunner]

Just want to say I love the topic.

I wish I had something to contribute, but I don't at the moment, for a variety of work and personal reasons.

As soon as I can come up with a reasonable thought / idea / adventure seed, I will!

[cawest]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Until right now, I wasn't even aware of these sailing cruise ships. Those are quite interesting! The largest two, Club Med 1 and Club Med 2 (the latter only completed in 1996) have a gross tonnage of almost 15,000 ts and are listed having a crew of around 214 and a capacity of 340-386 passengers, mostly in twin-beds. The staterooms look easily convertible to two double-racks or even six bunks in total. If you stack up in the state rooms in such a way and reduce the crew, i. e. the steward department, you can embark a light marine battalion.

Certainly they would have to make due almost without any land vehicles, but four medium sized barges can hang from davits. Deck space is a problem though, with only a small forecastle and not much space on the quarterdeck (i. e. the stern). I really don't see room for recoilless guns without some rebuilding, to be honest, mainly since the huge back-blast would make them dangerous to operate near walls and sails. Also, the range is not great on these guns, so Bofors 40 mm in single or dual mounts may be a better alternative. Light guns up to 30 mm as well as the venerale Bofors also enjoy the benefit of not needing barbettes, i. e. they could be bolted directly on decks without punching through the construction. That makes retrofitting much easier.

One probably could raze the light structures on Star Deck - mainly a glass superstructure housing a restaurant - in order to create more deck space for crans, boats, vehicles, containers and light artillery. A great feature of both ships however is the water sports platform, which is essentially a miniature well deck/dock and can be used to disembark marines quickly for boarding parties etc. There is also room for small-craft.

The big question for these ships constructed by Société nouvelle des ateliers et chantiers du Havre will be, how there computers have weathered nuclear war. The ships cannot be sailed manually without significant modifications to the standing rigging. The masts are not meant to be climbed easily and the crew complement does not support a traditional sailing crew, without significantly reducing the number of passengers. So, if the computers are fried, e. g. by EMP, those ships become slow steamers, 10 to 12 knots with engines only, compared to 15 kn under combined (sailing and steaming) propulsion.

Deckplan: https://www.windstarcruises.com/Blan...f_10-22-20.pdf

how about towing barges. i remember seeing paintings of sailing ships towing light boats behind them (think it was a horse lighter)

[Targan]

Originally Posted by cawest

maybe not. she had her keel laid in mar 97. this could be used as a propaganda tool. it also was built in the Duyfken Replica Ship Yard in Fremantle, Western Australia. It is not like this place would be working on modern warships. So she might have fight under a new flag, but she might have launched. without fuel this might force it to be finished and launched.

An added complication is that the Garden Island Naval Base (Australia's west coast submarine base) and the Kwinana fuel refinery just across the water are moderately likely nuke targets. If so, Fremantle's port facilities would likely have taken at least minor tsunami damage, if not blast damage.

But I do like the idea of the Duyfken having made it to launching.

[swaghauler]

Do NOT forget the infamous WINDJAMMER sailing fleet that stalked the Caribbean until they went bankrupt in 2006. Those four ships could carry a huge compliment of crew and passengers.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Do NOT forget the infamous WINDJAMMER sailing fleet that stalked the Caribbean until they went bankrupt in 2006. Those four ships could carry a huge compliment of crew and passengers.

S/V Mandalay was originally the yacht S/V Hussar. Crew of approximately 28 and 72 passengers. It was sailing out of Grenada until this year, when COVID put it out of business (for now, at least).

S/V Yankee Clipper was the German armored yacht Cressida until captured in World War II. It's retired and permanently docked in Trinidad. 30 crew and 68 passengers.

The S/V Polynesia (formerly the Portuguese Argus and featured in National Geographic's May 1952 issue) had a crew of 45 and 116 passengers, while S/V Legacy (formerly the meteorological research vessel France II) had a crew of 43 and 122 passengers.

Does this count?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_Pomorza

http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/dar1.JPG
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/dar2.JPG
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/dar3.JPG
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/dar4.JPG
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/dar5.JPG
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/dar6.JPG

[cawest]

Originally Posted by Targan

An added complication is that the Garden Island Naval Base (Australia's west coast submarine base) and the Kwinana fuel refinery just across the water are moderately likely nuke targets. If so, Fremantle's port facilities would likely have taken at least minor tsunami damage, if not blast damage.

But I do like the idea of the Duyfken having made it to launching.

yea the sub base might get nuked, if it has sub pens. but they might just send in some ship/sub/air launched cruise missiles with HE/Frag warheads. or maybe a small nuke in the 10 or 15kt or even RA 115/RA 115-01. they might need the bigger boys for other targets.

have you thought about maybe writing up your idea?