4e Mechanics & Rules Discussion

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

I think you're running into the limitations of a lifepath system built on a very small number of d6 tables.

- C.

If FL aims at further developing that product line - of which I'm not certain, as I see more of a broad and less a deep approach in their product line - I'd wish fore a refurbishment of their character generation. Something that gives us more options and wider tables.

[Raellus]

I'm not mathematically minded so when questions of probability come up, I lack confidence, and fear making the wrong call.

Should I shuffle the deck of playing cards I use for an "Oracle" for my solo campaign after each draw, or should I run through the entire deck before reshuffling?

If I was only drawing to ask Yes/No questions, or determine if something was Helpful or Hazardous, then running through the entire deck would guarantee a 50-50 split across 52 draws, and that doesn't seem particularly realistic. But then what about the law of averages?

I'm drawing from the same deck when using the other tables (NPC Motivations, Settlement Problem and Attitude, and Further Elements) in the solo rules as well, so that complicates the Yes/No & Helpful/Hazardous probability issue.

I hope this question makes sense. As I said before, my number sense is not very good.

-

[kcdusk]

Originally Posted by Raellus

If I was only drawing to ask Yes/No questions, or determine if something was Helpful or Hazardous, then running through the entire deck would guarantee a 50-50 split across 52 draws, and that doesn't seem particularly realistic. But then what about the law of averages?

-

I'd argue that guaranteeing a 50/50 ye/no outcome over 52 draws was Ok.

Perhaps flip a coin for yes/nos to remove the cards issue?

Thinking about this more, and something i haven't done myself but am now thinking i might do it for my own solo campaign. I'm considering shuffling the random encounter deck after each encounter.

Why? Because who says you can't run into back to back military patrols? Or civilian hunters? Or bad weather over two consecutive days? In fact i'd argue this makes more sense not to remove the card, not less. Further, if you have an encounter and put the card aside - then you know you won't have to deal with that "encounter issue" again, which removes from the game.

So while i have not answered your question, i think i am going to shuffle the random encounter deck and improve my game because of it.

[Raellus]

Here's a brief scenario. The PCs are planning to ambush an enemy convoy. Since it's a "group ambush" (technically, it's waylaying), I have to roll an opposed Recon check for the PC with the lowest Recon score. That PC does not have the Recon skill (F?). For skill rolls involving Recon, this PC can only roll their attribute base die which, in this case, is C. The whole party spends a shift preparing to waylay the convoy, earning a +3 modifier to the Recon roll.

In this scenario, how do I step up the base die? There's only one base die to start off with- the Attribute. The rules instruct players to balance their die whenever adding or subtracting modifiers.

Do I:

Step up the Attribute from C to B (+1), and B to A (+2) then stop, as there's no second base die (the non-existent skill) to step up?

OR

Do I step up the Attribute base die from C to B (+1). Then step up the Skill base die from F (non-existent) to D (+2), then raise it again to C (+3), so that the two base dice are close to balanced?

OR

Do I step up the Attribute from C to B (+1), then step it up again to A (+2) and then raise the skill F to D (+3)?

-

[Skunk]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Do I step up the Attribute base die from C to B (+1). Then step up the Skill base die from F (non-existent) to D (+2), then raise it again to C (+3), so that the two base dice are close to balanced?
-

This is the way I'd go, I haven't looked in the rules to support it but it matches the balancing scheme I remember. I would play it that if you only have a single dice the first +1 always adds in a second die.

[Tegyrius]

The "Modifiers" section on pages 45-46 has what you need, but it's obfuscated (see below):

Sometimes, external factors help you to succeed. Such modifiers will step up one of your base dice to a better die, from a D6 to a D8 for example. Other times, something hampers your action. This will downstep one of your base dice. You can get modifiers to skill rolls in several different ways: specialties, the difficulty of the action itself, and help from others.

A +1 modifier means upgrading a base die one step, a +2 modifier means upgrading two steps, and so on. A –1 modifier means downgrading a base die one step, –2 means two steps down, and so on. Several modifiers can apply to the same roll, and they are cumulative. A +2 modifier and a –1 modifier add up to +1, for example.

When stepping up and down, always try to balance your dice as much as possible – i.e. step up a lower base die first, and downstep a higher base die. You can never go above two D12s, no matter what modifiers you have. To downstep past two D6s, remove one die. You can never go below one D6. If you lack a skill level and start with just a single base die, step up by adding a D6 (as one step up) and step it up further as needed.

Italicized and bolded for emphasis. The italicized paragraph is where the order of operations is scripted. The bolded sentence is the key to this scenario, and I'm particularly wroth with Free League over it because of what I consider a very poor layout choice here. They put that sentence by itself on the backside of page 45, so in both PDF and print versions, it's not visible on the same spread as the rest of this section.

- C.

[Raellus]

Thanks, Teg. I thought I remembered seeing something like that. The seeming finality of the explanation on p.45 fooled me into not reading beyond it to the next page.

On a different topic, I think the Typical NPCs table on p. 37 of the Ref's Manual is a bit lacking. For example, my PCs have been running into enemy vehicle crews from time to time. The stat blocks from said table that would fit an enemy vehicle crewman are Soviet (or Polish) Soldier. That template lacks basic skills that even a rookie vehicle crew would have. A BTR gunner should have at least a modicum of Heavy Weapons skill but the standard stat block for Soviet Soldier (the closest thing on the list to a BTR gunner) doesn't even mention it.

If I stick to the rules, as written, I can only roll one base die for the NPC's relevant attribute. So, in the case of the hypothetical BTR gunner, he starts with only a d10 (for STR B) before adding or subtracting applicable modifiers. Enemy NPCs that only roll one die definitely give my PCs an advantage, so I'm not complaining too much. It does seem unrealistic and more than a tad unfair, though- I almost feel like I am cheating when I roll that single die for the bad guy.

I've played by the book (and it almost always works to my PCs' benefit). I've also experimented by simply adding a key skill that a trained, experienced soldier would have at level C. In the example of my hypothetical BTR gunner, that would mean adding a D8 for Heavy Weapons to the D10 die for STR attribute. Instead of adding a new skill, I've also just swapped out for a skill on the list (in this case, swapping Ranged Combat C for Heavy Weapons C). That feels more realistic, and fair, but it also puts enemy NPCs almost on par with PCs and I'm not sure I like that very much either. The PCs are, after all, the "stars of the show", and I've invested a lot more time and thought into them than I have some nameless OPFOR in a random combat encounter. I'm torn.

How do you (any of you) handle the somewhat vanilla, one-size-fits-all enemy NPCs of the base rules?

-

[Higgipedia]

Originally Posted by Raellus

How do you (any of you) handle the somewhat vanilla, one-size-fits-all enemy NPCs of the base rules?
-

Mike Verkuilen's excellent Soldiers, Farms, and Refugees supplement in the Free League Workshop has really useful guidelines with four power levels. Each increase in power adds more attribute increases, skills, and specialties.

So you could have low-level foot infantry be CCDD with Ranged Combat C and Recon C. Vehicle crews might be CCDD with Heavy Weapons C, Ranged Combat D, and Drive D.

But his supplement is fantastic and is a must-buy in my opinion.