Air Support c.2000

[castlebravo92]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbres

I would imagine most fixed wing aircraft are long gone save for those in CentCom's area of Operation or (eventually) in CONUS after Operation Omega. Elsewhere, a unit here and there might have a helicopter and a small reserve of aviation fuel (like the MI-8 in the Free City of Krakow) or ala' the Soviets near the Romanian Ploesti fields. Otherwise, that's all folks. Decay, attrition, lack of parts and lack of pilots would mean most flying is a thing of the past. Accordingly, air defense is also (mostly) gone. Batteries, battery cooling units and MANPADS only last so long.

Per 1.0 Canon, we know there is an operational refinery in Robinson, IL under US MilGov control, a refinery in Ploesti, Romania under USSR control, and refineries in Saudi Arabia / Iran under allied / Warsaw Pack control. The French also have a refinery or refineries going.

Additionally, even though most of the refineries were wiped out, there's a lot of universities that survived with chemical engineering and petroleum engineering undergrads, graduate students, and professors. Any quasi-state level government would be highly motivated to rebuild a basic chemical and petroleum industrial base close to where there were secure oil/natgas production (for MilGov, this would principally be Oklahoma & south eastern Wyoming).

So, I would expect core MilGov cantonments in CONUS to have limited air support available, even if it's just converted civilian helicopters with machine guns or Mk19s added as door guns and light airplanes for doing recon patrols for marauders outside of controlled areas. Not the same thing as radioing for an airstrike, but still would not be completely absent.

[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by castlebravo92

Per 1.0 Canon, we know there is an operational refinery in Robinson, IL under US MilGov control, a refinery in Ploesti, Romania under USSR control, and refineries in Saudi Arabia / Iran under allied / Warsaw Pack control. The French also have a refinery or refineries going.

Additionally, even though most of the refineries were wiped out, there's a lot of universities that survived with chemical engineering and petroleum engineering undergrads, graduate students, and professors. Any quasi-state level government would be highly motivated to rebuild a basic chemical and petroleum industrial base close to where there were secure oil/natgas production (for MilGov, this would principally be Oklahoma & south eastern Wyoming).

So, I would expect core MilGov cantonments in CONUS to have limited air support available, even if it's just converted civilian helicopters with machine guns or Mk19s added as door guns and light airplanes for doing recon patrols for marauders outside of controlled areas. Not the same thing as radioing for an airstrike, but still would not be completely absent.

Speaking of that, there is a producing well/rig in Red Star, Lone Star.; also doesn't the Pacific Northwest Sourcebook have a trickle of oil? A referee could easily wave into North Texas, OK and Louisiana and have a producing well coaxed back online.
The airframes would be the rub-seals decay, hoses fray and break down, hydraulic fluid doesn't last forever. As a referee I would probably expect most intact units to have at most a single Apache or Kiowa flying in most of CONUS plus whatever civilian aircraft/copters were still available? Those assets would be reserved for the most critical missions like targeting New America. Just a thought.

[castlebravo92]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbres

Speaking of that, there is a producing well/rig in Red Star, Lone Star.; also doesn't the Pacific Northwest Sourcebook have a trickle of oil? A referee could easily wave into North Texas, OK and Louisiana and have a producing well coaxed back online.
The airframes would be the rub-seals decay, hoses fray and break down, hydraulic fluid doesn't last forever. As a referee I would probably expect most intact units to have at most a single Apache or Kiowa flying in most of CONUS plus whatever civilian aircraft/copters were still available? Those assets would be reserved for the most critical missions like targeting New America. Just a thought.

There would be functional small wells all across Oklahoma, New Mexico, and the Texas panhandle that would only need electricity (which could be provided on-situ with portable gens) to run the pump jacks to continue producing. Additionally, back in 1996, natural gas pumps were largely natural gas powered, so limited NG production could be resumed with resources on hand.

NG is maybe more critical than oil is, because it's feedstock for things such as methanol (which you need for biodiesel), ammonia (fertilizers, explosives), and power generation.

Unfortunately, oil only gets you so far. Raw crude oil can be burned in some industrial diesel plants, but modern production of gasoline and jet fuel and aviation gasoline is pretty complex (or at least, I've been assured by someone that works in the industry that it's complex and even if you know what you are doing and had plenty of raw materials it would be extremely difficult to stand up from scratch). Basic distillate hydrocarbons get you in the 40-60 octane range. To get to the octane ranges cars need (80+) requires a pretty complex blend of hydrocarbons, detergents, and additives. A lot of those additives and detergents require you to have a chemical industry that is downstream of natural gas production.

I would expect 2-stroke motors and Sterling engines would make a heck of a comeback, as well as diesels (since it's easier to make than gasoline). But yeah, I doubt the dirigibles and ultralights are the only airpower in CONUS circa 2001. Not when there is a functioning refinery in Robinson, IL.

[Vespers War]

As an example of the less-advanced refinery outputs, the gasoline the United States exported during World War I was 62 octane. In testing (I believe by Ricardo), it only worked up to a compression ratio of 5.05:1 before knocking started. Modern airplane engines won't run on that, at least not for long, but large-displacement chunky engines running at low compression would work. The British flew on 60 octane fuel early in World War II before they received 100 octane imports from the US.

[bash]

There are ridiculous numbers of private aircraft in North America. Even after TDM there's going to be large numbers of surviving aircraft. Lack of parts and fuel will definitely impart their use but there will be more than zero aircraft in the skies in 2000.

That being said they're going to be rare sights because of parts and fuel. Major MilGov and CivGov enclaves in CONUS will be able to field aircraft for special missions, more VIP transport and recon that any combat missions. Larger settlements with an airport could also get planes in the air occasionally, fuel sources willing. In game terms they'd maybe be used on a special mission to insert PCs behind enemy lines or a "recover the MacGuffin from our crashed plane".

Ultralite planes would make for pretty good recon assets for any group with decent resources. Not just recon missions but aerial surveying and courier jobs. I also love the Airlords scenario so I'm also fine with a secret high tech derigible wreaking havoc.

[Raellus]

Although drones wouldn't be a factor in classic T2k campaigns, the use of turbo-prop training aircraft as light attack platforms certainly could. Ukraine was first to use the YAK-52 as a drone-hunter; it looks like the Russians are following suit- the latter's version features underwing-mounted shotguns.

https://www.twz.com/air/russia-testi...rainian-drones

These aircraft usually don't operate near the frontlines where enemy ADW would make short work of them. However, in a T2kU, c.2000, where AA defenses are much sparser, they might.

-

[castlebravo92]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Although drones wouldn't be a factor in classic T2k campaigns, the use of turbo-prop training aircraft as light attack platforms certainly could. Ukraine was first to use the YAK-52 as a drone-hunter; it looks like the Russians are following suit- the latter's version features underwing-mounted shotguns.

https://www.twz.com/air/russia-testi...rainian-drones

These aircraft usually don't operate near the frontlines where enemy ADW would make short work of them. However, in a T2kU, c.2000, where AA defenses are much sparser, they might.

-

Not only would AA defenses be much sparser, their capabilities would be much degraded. Probably not a lot of proximity fused AA rounds being produced in 2000. Not a lot of BCUs for Stingers floating around either. Nor active air defense radars.

So flying is probably a lot safer, provided you can get the fuel.

I doubt spare parts would actually be that big of a problem for re-purposed civilian craft, since there would be plenty of derelict and abandoned aircraft, not to mention you have guys building ultralights with 2-stroke lawn-mower engines, a box fan, a lawn chair, and a bed sheet these days.