Ammo reloading

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The biggest problem I can think of for the US type 40mm grenades is the primer set up. The grenades rely on a two-stage system whereby a small charge in a chamber of the shell burns and then escapes into a larger chamber (the main body of the shell casing).
You can't tap the primer out like you can for civilian smallarms ammo, I think it would have to be drilled out.

[DocSavage45B10]

Also brass. Very common once upon a time (old West).

Originally Posted by jester

Shotgun shells are:

Aluminuim seen but not used.

Soft Steel shells, used they are okay.

Plastic, is the norm here in the US, reloadable, although I do not reload shotgun yet. I hear you can do it half a dozen times.

PAPER or Cardboard shells, used them. They work pretty well. Although of course caution should be used when using them around wet enviroments, these of course can not be reloaded.

[weswood]

Is reloading, primarily pistol ammo, cost effective? With the rising cost of ammo, I've been thinking of getting into it. I shoot mostly .45 acp & .357. Cheap ammo runs around $22 a box of 50, I tend to shoot whatever is cheapest on the range and save the "good stuff" for just in case.

[DocSavage45B10]

It depends on how much you shoot. There are large upfront capital expenditures, but if you spend that much or more on ammo a year, you can ammortize the cost in ammo savings relatively quickly.

It helps if you mainly shoot common calibers that have widely avaiable and frequently discounted components available in bulk.

[Legbreaker]

Found this interesting site a minute ago.
http://www.conjay.com/Ammunition%20f...and%2020mm.htm
Amazing how many different types of ammo there is even within the one calibre and nationality! Take a look at the .303 for example...

[James Langham]

As a random thought for the 120mm rifled gun, it has a bagged charge - put a load of scrap metal in the tube, add bagged charge and fire - from memory this was actually recommended as a desperation measure in the manuals.

Not sure what that would do to the rifling but considering canister would be REALLY useful in TW2000 I would bet it becomes a commonly used tactic.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by James Langham

As a random thought for the 120mm rifled gun, it has a bagged charge - put a load of scrap metal in the tube, add bagged charge and fire - from memory this was actually recommended as a desperation measure in the manuals.

Not sure what that would do to the rifling but considering canister would be REALLY useful in TW2000 I would bet it becomes a commonly used tactic.

You do what gunners of the past did. A Leather cup holds the shrapnel (odd metal bits) or it goes into a cloth bag which rests on a wooden disk. This carries the shrapnel down the tube and disintegrates or falls away once it clears the tube.

[WallShadow]

Checking out the online military surplus marketplace, I found this little bit of happiness:
http://www.govliquidation.com/auctio...tionId=7615799
That's about 1 1/2 tons of spent brass that's not demilled. Needs to be decapped, cleaned, sized, recapped, and loaded. I wonder how many reloaded rounds that would bring from Wojo's factory?
2900lbs (allow some lost weight for packaging)/10 =290lbs of finished 5.56N rounds.

And there were at least 4 more sites with other calibers besides 5.56N: 7.62N, .50BMG, and 9mmP.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by DocSavage45B10

Also brass. Very common once upon a time (old West).

Also went back to brass when paper shells couldn't last in the Pacific theatre.

[.45cultist]

Also there are commercial swaging machines that make .50BMG, .600 Nitro jacketed bullets. Cost goes up with capability, bullet options, etc.

[Apache6]

- I originally posted most of this to 'home guard thread' reposted here since I think it's relevant to 'reloading' or more correctly manufacturing 'heavy weapon ammo.'

- I think most decent colleges, and certainly all agricultural or mining schools, chemistry departments have the foundation knowledge to make base components for munitions. Black powder is fairly easy, smokeless powder and explosive components more challenging. Primary explosives for primers and initiators more challenging still. The know how to make explosives would be found in most chemistry departments, it is likely it would have become more readily available as the nation moved to war footing.

"For a militia or home-guard unit, a decent bomb squad would be 'fairly capable of providing the knowledge to design fuses and make "home made explosives." Combined with machine shop capabilities this could be very powerful/useful to the Militia (or a marauder band.)

Land mines and IEDs are fairly simple to improvise. Grenades as well, the first were simply metal balls filled with blackpowder and lit by a burning fuse. I would not think rifle grenades would be that hard to manufacture.

Fuses for explosive rounds are harder, but not impossible. Different types of shells have to have different types of fuses. exploding rockets, mortars and then cannon shells might need different fuses to function based on the increasingly high velocities and forces involved in firing.

"Barrage Rockets would not be hard to improvise, but 'accurate rockets would be more challenging. Recoilless rifles have been improvised by the IRA, but they require a quality steel and knowledge to make the breach. I could see a "bazooka" making a come back, perhaps firing either HE or shaped charge rounds.

Munitions for AFVs. The easiest round to make for any gun would likely be a 'cannister or 'shotgun' round. It could be as simple as a black powder charge behind the appropriate weight of ball bearings, lead shot, marbles, rocks..., initiated by an electrical current passing through a glow plug.

Solid shot would require machining but should not be hard for a machinist to make, with tools common in high schools.

High explosive shells would be fairly easy to make. Reliable fuses for them more difficult.

Electrical ignition might be easier and more reliable, but then your rounds are likely going to have to have a battery, and thus a 'shelf life.'

Small Arms:
- Reloading of revolvers, shotguns and some rifles (30-30 for example) with black powder is very doable. Most automatic/semi auto firearms will not reliably work with black powder.

- Reloading of modern rounds, if smokeless powder is available, is easy, and thousands of American hobbyist do it.

- Making smokeless powders and primers is more challenging. I'd expect that getting plants into production would be a major drive for organized groups. Once built they would produce a very valuable trading item. The technology is not that difficult, but it does assume a level of security and trade.

[.45cultist]

Forgot that the WWII to Vietnam mortar rounds used a modified shotgun shell for ignition. The WWII 60MM used a paper 20 gauge. I know a cartridge collector with fun items in his collection. Some autocannon use electric primers, and won't work in similar guns, 20MM's are like that.

[Ironside]

The British L118 Light Gun used electrical ignition via a piezo-electrical device, no battery needed.

It used brass cased semi-fixed ammunition IIRC.

[bobcat]

for larger guns if you don't have a large amount of metal you can make sobot rounds. it's easier than it sounds since the material for the sabot only has to work once, unless your sending people out to collect the spent sabots after an engagement.

sabot ammo can also be made for a wide array of calibers all the way down to .30 M1 carbine.