TW2k13

[Damocles]

Yeah, you know, just whip up stats for ever freaking vehicle in the world.. LOL

And once done with every single MBT.. we have every SINGLE IFV to start on!!

BWAAA!!! Can't... stop... laughing...

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Sorry its taken so long to get back her, but getting ready for classes has taken most of my time
also didnt help that i chopped the tip of my finger off

I was asked awile back what stats i was looking for
Here is a list of all the currently operational MBT in the world
now some of these have been done already so we have a base to start from.

Main Battle Tanks
TAM Tank
M1A1 AIM
SK 105
Leopard 1 BE
M3 Stuart Upgrade
X1A Stuart
X1A2 Stuart
Leopard C2
Leopard C2 uparmored
Type 59 MBT (T-54A)
Type 59-I MBT
Type 59-II MBT
Type 69-II MBT (export)
Type 79 MBT
Type 80 MBT
Type 88 MBT
Type 88B MBT
Type 85-IIAP MBT (export)
Type 99 MBT
T-55 w/105mm
AMX-13 Export 105mm
AMX-30
AMX-30 B2*
Leclerc
Leopard 1A5
Leopard 2A4
Leopard 2A5
Leopard 2A6
Vijayanta (Vickers Mk.I )
Arjun Mk 1*
Merkava 2B
Merkava 3
Merkava 3B Baz
Merkava 3B Dor Dalet
Merkava 4*
Sabra II
C1 Ariete
C1 Ariete Mk 2
OF-40
Type 74 MBT
Type 90 MBT
Type 10 MBT
Al-Khalid
Al-Hussein (Challanger 1)
Leopard 1-V
Ch’onma-ho I (Ga)(T-62 with thinner armour)
Ch’onma-ho II MBT (Imported T-62s)
Ch’onma-ho IM (Improved imported T-62)
Ch’onma-ho III(Da) MBT
Ch’onma-ho IV(Ra) MBT
Ch’onma-ho V(Ma) MBT
Pokpung-Ho (Seems to be a copy of the Modern T-72BM?)
NM-116
PT-91*
PT-91A*
T-72M1Z*
T-34/85
T-54
T-54B
T-55/T-55A
T-55MV-1 / T-55AMV-1
T-62 /T-62A
T-62M
T-62M1
T-62MV
T-64B1
T-64BV1
T-64R
T-72
T-72M Export
T-72A
T-72M1 Export
T-72B
T-72S Export
T-72B1
T-72M1M Export
T-72BM
T-80
T-80B*
T-80U*
T-80UM*
T-80UD*
T-90
T-90A
T-90S Export
Olifant 1 (Centurion)
Olifant 1A
Olifant 1B
K1A MBT
K2 Black Panther
Strv 121 (Leopard 2A4)
Strv 122 (Leopard 2A5)
Pz 68 MBT (being withdrawn from service)
M41 Walker Bulldog
M41D Walker Bulldog
CM-11 (M48H)*
CM-12 (M48A3 upgd)*
Stingray
M48A5T1
M48A5T2
Vickers Mk 3
Challenger 2
M5 Stuart
M47M (export only)
M48A1
M48A3
M48A5
M60A1
M60A3
M1A1
M1A1HA / M1A1HC
M1A1D
M1A2
M1A2 SEP
M1A2 TUSK
M1A1 Export
M1A2 Export
Zulfiqar

as you can see theres alot of them so its more then a one man job

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Damocles

Yeah, you know, just whip up stats for ever freaking vehicle in the world.. LOL

And once done with every single MBT.. we have every SINGLE IFV to start on!!

BWAAA!!! Can't... stop... laughing...

Paul has done it

[Damocles]

Yeah and who tasked him to do it?

Hey Kato, I'm looking for someone to make a forum/website for every single RPG ever published. I don't have time to do all that, but Twilight 2000 and Morrow Project have been done, so we (and by we I mean you), have a basis to work from.

I'll be in skool if you need me.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Sorry its taken so long to get back her, but getting ready for classes has taken most of my time
also didnt help that i chopped the tip of my finger off

I was asked awile back what stats i was looking for
Here is a list of all the currently operational MBT in the world
now some of these have been done already so we have a base to start from.

Main Battle Tanks
TAM Tank
M1A1 AIM
SK 105
Leopard 1 BE
M3 Stuart Upgrade
X1A Stuart
X1A2 Stuart
Leopard C2
Leopard C2 uparmored
Type 59 MBT (T-54A)
Type 59-I MBT
Type 59-II MBT
Type 69-II MBT (export)
Type 79 MBT
Type 80 MBT
Type 88 MBT
Type 88B MBT
Type 85-IIAP MBT (export)
Type 99 MBT
T-55 w/105mm
AMX-13 Export 105mm
AMX-30
AMX-30 B2*
Leclerc
Leopard 1A5
Leopard 2A4
Leopard 2A5
Leopard 2A6
Vijayanta (Vickers Mk.I )
Arjun Mk 1*
Merkava 2B
Merkava 3
Merkava 3B Baz
Merkava 3B Dor Dalet
Merkava 4*
Sabra II
C1 Ariete
C1 Ariete Mk 2
OF-40
Type 74 MBT
Type 90 MBT
Type 10 MBT
Al-Khalid
Al-Hussein (Challanger 1)
Leopard 1-V
Ch’onma-ho I (Ga)(T-62 with thinner armour)
Ch’onma-ho II MBT (Imported T-62s)
Ch’onma-ho IM (Improved imported T-62)
Ch’onma-ho III(Da) MBT
Ch’onma-ho IV(Ra) MBT
Ch’onma-ho V(Ma) MBT
Pokpung-Ho (Seems to be a copy of the Modern T-72BM?)
NM-116
PT-91*
PT-91A*
T-72M1Z*
T-34/85
T-54
T-54B
T-55/T-55A
T-55MV-1 / T-55AMV-1
T-62 /T-62A
T-62M
T-62M1
T-62MV
T-64B1
T-64BV1
T-64R
T-72
T-72M Export
T-72A
T-72M1 Export
T-72B
T-72S Export
T-72B1
T-72M1M Export
T-72BM
T-80
T-80B*
T-80U*
T-80UM*
T-80UD*
T-90
T-90A
T-90S Export
Olifant 1 (Centurion)
Olifant 1A
Olifant 1B
K1A MBT
K2 Black Panther
Strv 121 (Leopard 2A4)
Strv 122 (Leopard 2A5)
Pz 68 MBT (being withdrawn from service)
M41 Walker Bulldog
M41D Walker Bulldog
CM-11 (M48H)*
CM-12 (M48A3 upgd)*
Stingray
M48A5T1
M48A5T2
Vickers Mk 3
Challenger 2
M5 Stuart
M47M (export only)
M48A1
M48A3
M48A5
M60A1
M60A3
M1A1
M1A1HA / M1A1HC
M1A1D
M1A2
M1A2 SEP
M1A2 TUSK
M1A1 Export
M1A2 Export
Zulfiqar

as you can see theres alot of them so its more then a one man job

Start with a list of basic tanks first, the variants can be done later. Or pick a specific region and do the combatants most common AFV's first, then variants.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by unkated

I'll apologize if this is not the right place, but can someone summarise the differences between the mechanics of T2013 vs T2K V2.2?

Thanks,

Uncle Ted

This is the perfect place to explain the mechanics of the various Twilight versions for anyone who hasn't had exposure to all of them.

Version 1: A percentile based game (you have a 40% chance to hit him).

Version 2: A slightly simplified system that included the revolutionary recoil rules and a Skill System based on a 1d10 roll.

Version 2.2: An "enhanced" version 2 rule set that transitioned to the 1D20 die roll system and added a "controlling attribute" to the skill level which created an asset for a beginning target number (ie. Small Arms skill level 2 + AGL of 6 equals an asset of 8). Version 2.2 was the most "polished" of the editions but I believe version 1 was "smoother" in play for most beginning players. It's hard to beat a simple percentile system.

Twilight 2013: The game to uses a specialized gaming system called The Reflex System. In the Reflex system; The character's attributes (base attributes are from 1 to 10) are used as "base target numbers" for any skills the character has learned. This base target number is modified by various bonuses and penalties. Skill levels are not used directly for task resolution though. The character's skill levels are referenced on a chart to get a "Skill Rating" from Unskilled through to Master Ratings. Each of these ratings allow one or more dice (from 1 die for Novice, up to 5 dice for Master) to be rolled. To determine your success in the Reflex System; You take the lowest successful die roll and subtract it from your target number. To this number you will add +2 for EACH additional successful die roll. The total of these numbers is your Margin of Success. This Margin of Success is used to determine the effect of your success in game. You would also have a Margin of Failure if none of your dice rolls succeeded. Twilight 2013 had some issues due to the complexity of the Reflex System (they can be math heavy and therefore cumbersome in use) but was pretty well written. Some of the rules are better than the previous editions. I like the reconstruction rules, The psychological damage rules and the rules on Coolness Under Fire (the best thought out of these rules in all of the editions).

In fact; I'm mixing and matching the aspects of all of the editions which I think work the best. I primarily use the version 2.2 rules but include elements of all the editions in my game.

[Tnchi2a]

Well one thing that should be brought up is that most of the differences between variants are not stat based.

example: the M1A1D is just a M1A1 with a new digital package added, basically GPS and battlefield computers.

Also some of the tanks are just older tanks with different names.
Exp: Type 59 MBT (T-54A),Al-Hussein (Challanger 1),Olifant 1 (Centurion), ETC.

The thing that would be the most work is the armor ratings because most if not all of the other stats are on the internet.

[Tnchi2a]

Originally Posted by Damocles

Yeah and who tasked him to do it?

Hey Kato, I'm looking for someone to make a forum/website for every single RPG ever published. I don't have time to do all that, but Twilight 2000 and Morrow Project have been done, so we (and by we I mean you), have a basis to work from.

I'll be in skool if you need me.

When did i say i would not help

Name HF - HS - HR / TF - TS - TR

Leopard 2A4 160cp- 41- 31 / 188cp-60cp-49*

Leopard 2A6 164cp- 41- 31 / 195cp-68cp-49

M1A2 SEP 205cp- 30cp-21cp /183cp-68cp-65

Chieftain Mk 5 78-20-13 / 78-39-13 #

Challange 2 166cp- 43cp-27cp /192cp-68cp-55*

Leclerc 98cp- 36cp-20cp /121cp-34cp-34

T-90 160cp- 43 -36 / 190cp-88 - 42

T-80U 156cp- 41 -36 / 170cp-88 - 42*

T-72 97cp- 41 -31 / 110cp-79 - 33*

* Offical stats from TW2013
# Tegyrius stats

here some of my and others work on the subject now its not perfect but its a start.
Now as with all my work I'm not against honest criticism.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

When did i say i would not help

Name HF - HS - HR / TF - TS - TR

Leopard 2A4 160cp- 41- 31 / 188cp-60cp-49*

Leopard 2A6 164cp- 41- 31 / 195cp-68cp-49

M1A2 SEP 205cp- 30cp-21cp /183cp-68cp-65

Chieftain Mk 5 78-20-13 / 78-39-13 #

Challange 2 166cp- 43cp-27cp /192cp-68cp-55*

Leclerc 98cp- 36cp-20cp /121cp-34cp-34

T-90 160cp- 43 -36 / 190cp-88 - 42

T-80U 156cp- 41 -36 / 170cp-88 - 42*

T-72 97cp- 41 -31 / 110cp-79 - 33*

* Offical stats from TW2013
# Tegyrius stats

here some of my and others work on the subject now its not perfect but its a start.
Now as with all my work I'm not against honest criticism.

Ok, a nice start.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Well one thing that should be brought up is that most of the differences between variants are not stat based.

example: the M1A1D is just a M1A1 with a new digital package added, basically GPS and battlefield computers.

Also some of the tanks are just older tanks with different names.
Exp: Type 59 MBT (T-54A),Al-Hussein (Challanger 1),Olifant 1 (Centurion), ETC.

The thing that would be the most work is the armor ratings because most if not all of the other stats are on the internet.

Does the M1A1D get land navigation bonuses for the working digital package? Does EMP mean the crew get a penalty for land navigation until this is repaired or replaced? There's more to think about for some variants.

[Tnchi2a]

Heres the first of the Tanks


AMX-56 Leclerc (Séries XXI)
.
Barter Value: GG3,650,000
Street Price: $7,300,000
Configuration: Turreted
Suspension: Trk
Crew: 3 (driver, commander, loader)
Cargo:
Weight: 60 Tons
Travel Speed: 22/14 km/hr
Combat Speed: 58/44 m
Fuel: 1,300L (D) (+ 400 L drop tank)
Fuel Cons: 128 L/hr
Maintenance: 26
Armor: HF-105cp, HS-36cp, HR-31; TF-188cp, TS-50cp, TR-26; Susp-24.
Equipment
Armament: GIAT CN120-26/52 120mm tank gun (Good stabilization); coaxial M2HB (G); weapons mount (C; typically MAG).
Ammo: 40 rounds of 120mm; 1,100 rounds 12.7mm ammo; 3,000 rounds of belted 7.62x51mm ammo.
Comm: Military vehicular radio; Tactical data net
Sensors: Headlights; variable magnification (Mag-0 or Mag-3) optical gunsights (C, G); Mag-1 night vision gunsights (C, G); laser rangefinder.
Aux: Autoloader; NBC defense system.

Note: there is talk of a ERA package but, I could not find any concrete info for this.

[Tegyrius]

Missed this until now...

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Twilight 2013: The second game to use a specialized gaming system called The Reflex System. The first game was called The Swing (think Shadow Run meets Call of Cuthulu).

Point of order: Reflex was developed for Twilight: 2013 and was used only for that game. The Swing preceded Twilight: 2013 by several years and used a separate homebrew system devised by its author, Keith Taylor.

- C.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Missed this until now...



Point of order: Reflex was developed for Twilight: 2013 and was used only for that game. The Swing preceded Twilight: 2013 by several years and used a separate homebrew system devised by its author, Keith Taylor.

- C.

I'll take your word for it. The Swing was supposed to come out in the Reflex system about a month after TW2k13. Twilight got set back and didn't release when it was supposed to (took me 6 more months to get my copy) so I made the (apparently wrong) assumption that The Swing made it to print first (since it was only an update on a older game). I do know of the older Swing your speaking of. It used a system known as The Step System but I have never managed to get hold of either version (if the Reflex version was even released). Thanks for the clarification, I modified my previous post to prevent confusion.

[Trongard]

Greetings All!!!

I hope to get answers to my 2013 questions...

Only two to start with:

1) Medic, as an EMT (or general medic), can you guestimate the Muscle/Fitness loss for a Coma?

2) On page 175, the example at the bottom of the first column says "A critical injury reduces Pete’s Muscle from 9 to 8." Yet, when I look into critical injuries, there is no mention of possible loss of Muscle... Did our author forget something?

Sorry if these are a bit much, all at once, but I have a game I'm running that could have such challenges...

[Medic]

As a medical professional (registered nurse with experience from EMS, OR, ER and ICU, not to mention Combat Medical NCO), I would say one loses one point of both every three days, unless someone administers physical therapy and the character in question passes a Fitness check.

However, the rules state as follows:

Originally Posted by Twilight 2013, page 173

After a critical injury’s modified healing time is up, make a Resolve check. If the check succeeds, one critically injured hit location of your choice heals to a serious injury. If the check fails, you must then make a Fitness check. If this check fails as well, your character receives a permanent impairment (see p. 175) to one randomly-selected critically injured hit location.

The page 175 comments on Physical Therapy and, if you read it through, it gives you an official rule on the subject - imho, the character in the receiving end doesn't have to be awake for the physical therapy to work (we did that quite a bit in the ICU, especially on long term patients). If left untreated, then a comatose patient would lose Muscle and Fitness quickly.

[Trongard]

I was thinking of Coma as a life phase (i.e.: with physical therapy, etc. [Think Steven Seagal in Hard to Kill]). Also, I wasn't referencing the Physical Therapy portion of page 175... I was referencing the lack of an explained condition of critical injury causing Muscle loss...

I guess I was vague.

3) How would you go about custom gunsmithing for an expert, or higher, Artisan (Gunsmithing) with an average Education?

Thanks for the info so far!
Tg

[Trongard]

Did I crash this thread???

No one else with answers/suggestions/questions???

[.45cultist]

I'd guess it's a dull phase, no one in a coma would learn skills, just get older. You could roll like your aging to see if you lose stats. When you wake up, check to see if you make a contact from those who helped you.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The other thing to consider is that there aren't as many people here who know the 2013 rules well enough to comment compared to the number of people who know the T2k rules.

[Trongard]

Thanks for replying guys!

I understand that its a non-phase but, Coma does happen...

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

[unkated]

For vehicle stats, how different is T2013 from T2000 V2?

(other than the Digital fire control packages; electronics in vehicles is the main technological change between T2k's vehicles (circa 1995) and now (2015).

You could add a "comfort" value (a la Traveller:2300), since this period also includes the addition of features such as A/C (useful in the mideast, where many vehicles have been sent), and improved/comfortable seating.

Uncle Ted

[Medic]

LAV-C2
Purpose-built Battalion level command post vehicle, the LAV-C2 is the veritable center of the "anthill". Sporting a number of radios (four VHF SINCGARS, one UHF AN/VRC-83 and one HF AN/GRC-213, not to mention the UHF location reporting radio) and a BFT interface, it allows the Battalion Commander to direct his Battalion in combat.

The driver and vehicle commander have both daylight periscopes and night vision for their positions. The battalion commander has daylight periscopes, the communications specialists (two of them) have uplook periscopes and the staff member has three vision blocks.

Entry to the vehicle can happen through the five hatches on the roof (driver, vehicle commander, battalion commander and the two hatches on the rear deck) or through the twin doors in the rear that have no center post but can be fitted with a medium-sized military tent for additional workspace.

The vehicle has a 1200rpm manual idle-setting to provide power for all the electronics through an alternator and a recharger for four batteries, used by the radios when not connected to the vehicle. It also sports two manual halon-based fire extinguishers (one for the engine and one for the interior), a 15,000lb self recovery winch and an external power connector (28V DC or 110V AC).

The vehicle is fully amphibious with three minute preparation.

Barter Value: G650,000
Street Price: $1,950,000
Configuration: Standard
Suspension: OR
Crew: 2 (driver, commander) + 4 (battalion co, staff member, 2 radio operators)
Cargo: 900 kg
Weight: 13 tons
Travel Speed: 35/16 km/hr
Combat Speed: 98/45 m
Fuel: 270 L (D)
Fuel Cons: 40 L/hr
Maintenance: 16
Armor: HF 17, HS 11, HR 11; Susp 5.
Equipment
Armament: MAG (C), 2 smoke grenade launchers (4-rounds each).
Ammo: 1,000 rounds of belted 7.62mm NATO (200 ready), 16 smoke rounds (8 ready).
Comm: 4 Military vehicular radio; 2 Stationary Short-Wave Radios; tactical data link.
Sensors: Headlights; night vision system (D, C).
Aux: Amphibious running gear; self-recovery winch; 3 modern ruggedized laptop computers with scanner, laser printer and wired router; AN/GVS-5 hand-held laser rangefinder.

[Milano]

If anyone is still playing around with TW2013 I could sure use alittle help with creating small arms. I would like to plug in the numbers into an excel file I created but am still having issues with the formulas to get to some of the numbers.

It was mentioned that there were some other forums out there that had come up with some of them. Might someone have the link or a name? Or even better any formulas or insights?

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Milano

If anyone is still playing around with TW2013 I could sure use alittle help with creating small arms. I would like to plug in the numbers into an excel file I created but am still having issues with the formulas to get to some of the numbers.

It was mentioned that there were some other forums out there that had come up with some of them. Might someone have the link or a name? Or even better any formulas or insights?

93 Studios is defunct but those people are here. If you look most calibers are present, you might just need the weight and possible quirks.

[Milano]

I have access to all of the information but I want to find the equation to make the data. That they come up with. There are inconsistencies in their published data and before I just guesstimate I would like to know why or what they did to come up with it.

I have an Excel spreadsheet with ALL of their small arms on it but I don't want to post it because of copyright stuff.

But an example is the M21 weight is 5.2 length is 1118 mm. The speed is 4/6/9. The M16 DMR (their vernacular) is 5.4 length of 1187 speed of 4/6/8. Why the quicker speed? the M21 is both lighter and shorter.

Another example is the difference between the C7a2 and M16a3. Why does the M16a3 have a range of M/S and the C7 have a range of T/S?

Or the M4 has a recoil of 5, the 416 has a recoil of 4 yet the M4 weighs less?

Anyway, I am just a function freak or possibly my OCD is showing up but I dislike inconsistency.

[Medic]

Supacat Jackal
Barter Value: GG312,500
Street Price: $625,000
Configuration: Standard
Suspension: OR
Crew: 3 (driver, commander, gunner) + 1 (optionally two more seats can be installed in the back, reducing cargo by 500kg)
Cargo: 2,100 kg
Weight: 5,5 tons
Travel Speed: 40/30 km/hr
Combat Speed: 111/83m
Fuel: 200 L (D)
Fuel Cons: 10 L/hr
Maintenance: 9
Armor: HF 9, HS 8, HR 7; Susp 4. Hull AV’s double against explosions from beneath and triples against blast and fragmentation.
Equipment
Armament: Mount for up to Medium MG (C), mount for HMG or GMG (G), 4 smoke grenade launchers (4-rounds each, optional).
Ammo: As cargo.
Comm: Option to install one Military Vehicular Radio with Vehicle Aerial.
Sensors: Headlights.
Aux: Self-recovery winch.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Milano

Another example is the difference between the C7a2 and M16a3. Why does the M16a3 have a range of M/S and the C7 have a range of T/S?

I suspect, it is because the C7A2 has a telescopic stock, unlike the M16A3.

Or the M4 has a recoil of 5, the 416 has a recoil of 4 yet the M4 weighs less?

Exactly because of that. With the same round, the weapon with less weight gains more inertia through the recoil.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Medic

I suspect, it is because the C7A2 has a telescopic stock, unlike the M16A3.

Their is a bit more than that

The C7A2 has a modified Weaver rail for mounting optics(Some people call this a Picatinny Rail however the rail on C7A1 and further models pre dates Picatinny rail MIL-STD-1913). Most C7A2 have the C79 Optical sight attached, however this can removed by the user and back up iron site can attached.

The C7A2 can also fire on semi-automatic and fully automatic VS semi-automatic and burst(three rounds) of the M16A2/3

[Medic]

The point was, why the rifles had different range bands. That being said, the C7A2's difference in that matter is the stock, while it is otherwise the same weapon, when talking about range.

[Milano]

Yea your right about the recoil values? I got that a bit mixed up. Still though maybe I will be wishing for this for a long while to come. Just curious if anyone had a bit of insight for the formulas.

I do wish 93 hadn't gone belly up. I've never the opportunity to play 2013 but I do like the rule set. Hopefully I will play with my kids someday.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Milano

Yea your right about the recoil values? I got that a bit mixed up. Still though maybe I will be wishing for this for a long while to come. Just curious if anyone had a bit of insight for the formulas.

I do wish 93 hadn't gone belly up. I've never the opportunity to play 2013 but I do like the rule set. Hopefully I will play with my kids someday.

There is the master arms list a good set of different calibers to choose from and as for the rest, the Sweet 16 supplement gives you some insight on barrel lengths and such. Rest of it is approximating and comparing the values between weapons with rules for them.

As for playing, I've been contemplating on setting up an online playtest, where people could try coming to a suitable compromise on the online use of the 2013 rules. They can be a bit heavy to run online, so finding ideas on how to ease that would be grand. And I still need to wait a few years, before I can introduce my kids to the Twilight universe - 3.5 and 2 years of age aren't quite compatible with post-apoc gaming.