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#1
11-20-2010, 03:57 PM
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Even the Phoenix Team description tells WHY Bruce created them. Unfortunately, to many see them as a death squad instead of the SOCOM of the Project. My thoughts that Krell was a protegee of Bruce has been bouncing around for a while, and the developers like that.. because the original thoughts on who he was, is that he was a disgruntled member of the Council for Tomorrow. I've been talking with Tim McFadden (the author of Bullets and bluegrass), working with him on the drawings to illustrate the updated game module he's written. And working with him on making the official flag of the KFS.
__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. 
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#2
11-20-2010, 04:15 PM
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2) Your perception of Krell is the same I have heard about/read about over the years. Now, correct me if I seem silly. IF top level Morrow management got wind of Krell and what he/they were doing, wouldn't they unleash Phoenix? I propose this as a viable action BEFORE the big bang. Stop the problem NOW. We have also postulated that Morrow and the GB's were very loosely aware of each other. The GB's would be a PERFECT scouting force. And of could terminate the problem with EXTREAM prejudice.  Another two cents from yours truely. Mike
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#3
11-20-2010, 04:31 PM
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I think the biggest reason people think the team is a death squad is a throwaway line in the module where the Phoenix team would rather kill the team that woke them up instead of FORCING them out of Prime Base into the cold cruel world if they refused to go out RIGHT THEN. And i really think that line shouldn't have been in the module, because in all honesty... it just doesn't portray the kind of people that the Phoenix Team would be. A friend of mine turned the Phoenix Team into a brain trust of Bruce's closest and most personal advisers. But I really think that a few of those advisers would definitely be on the team as part of the leadership of the team... Quote:
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__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
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#4
11-20-2010, 05:26 PM
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just some random thoughts....
Phoenix was always the last ditch defense of the Project. Bruce could never be sure that the snake-eaters wouldn't have a hidden agenda of their own. Phoenix gave him a weapon that was at least as good, if not superior to the snake-eaters. Doesn't mean that he wanted to use them, but Phoenix is charged with safe-guarding the Project...from all enemies foreign and domestic, right? This would explain their presence in Prime Base, and in some games I've took part in, there was a backup, frozen Prime Base, complete with a second Phoenix Team, just in case. I've never run across the assumption that Phoenix is a death squad and that idea generated some serious discussion in last night's game. The opinion of my five players is as listed above. Krell has always been an off sort of villian to run. If Krell was one of the members of COT, then he was in a postion to cause very serious disruption to the project. I'm not talking about his attempt to nuke Prime, but in a position to have access to bolthole locations, not to mention the regional resupply bases, etc. This has serious consequences for the Project, because he would have direct access to the infrastructure of the Project, not just from a logistical point of view, but from a C3I viewpoint as well. Being able to monitor communications for example. On the other hand, if Krell is run as a member of the Project, but not a COT member, you now have the warlord version. He is aware of the Project, he has access to some of the Project equipment, but he is not in a position to run boltholes or bases down, unless he gets wind of a rumor of Morrows... It also safeguards Krell from the COT, since they wouldn't know what he was up to, then they would not be able to "sanction" him. IIRC there was a PBEM that had Krell as a gang banger that managed to pass the security protocol, get recruited, and due to his expertise with computers, was able to hack Project records and pass that info to other members of his gang so when TEOTWAWKI took place, this gang had someplace to go and create their own little kingdom.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#5
11-20-2010, 05:32 PM
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Philisophical point...
HI all,
I don't play TMP, never read the books, etc... but just a comment of a general nature. There are facts, and there are opinions. Facts are perceived by people in different ways, creating perception and influencing opinion. With regards to something like "a reason why," there can be a lot of different ones, depending on what you feel is probable. But just because something is not probable does not mean it is not possible. Was it probable that I would now be living in a country other than the one of my birth? No, but it was possible, and in fact here I am doing that. Was is probable that I would now have a net worth of $10 million? No, and it didn't happen (unless you measure it in Zimbabwe dollars  ). But it could have. Things are as they are not necessarily because of things that were the most probable, but because of things that were possible. So as long as something is possible, I think it is worth considering, and can form the sound basis for a potential scenario. (And IMO this is why multiple timelines can be so much fun.) If you want to think more on this, consider reading "The Black Swan" by Nassim Taleb; I found it good (although, maybe that was not probable?  )I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions....
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#7
11-20-2010, 08:17 PM
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Personally, once I have the 4th edition I'll be purging any socio-political aspects of the Project from the game for two reasons.
1. Saving humanity from extinction is enough of a reason to convince people to join the Project. Some people don't actually need an appeal to patriotism to encourage them to help humanity - it just comes across as jingoistic, which leads me on to my second point. 2. Making the game so inwardly focused on the USA will definitely weaken its appeal to some new gamers, particularly those not from the US. RPGs have a global market and many of us not from the US aren't so interested in another game that is about playing American PCs doing the "mom and apple pie" thing for America. It's one part of the reason for the failure of 93 Games Studio's revision of Twilight: 2000. I'll also be toning down the time travel aspects because with today's knowledge of technology and potential future tech, you don't need to have Morrow travelling into the future to bring back the tech to make the Project work. You start mucking about with time and you get the mess that plagues Star Trek and the Terminator series. I've never been too thrilled with the idea that Morrow had a lot of future knowledge of things such as that Prime Base was doomed because I've always been more than happy with the write up from the actual module itself that basically implies that he, along with the COT believed that a central command & control facility was needed and Prime Base was to be it. All the "might have beens", "could have beens" and "what ifs" of multiple time travels ends up making the situation very messy for the poor SOB running the game and there's already plenty of time travel RPGs out there for those interested in that stuff.
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#8
11-20-2010, 09:27 PM
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Given the original time frame the Us versus Them mentality is totally acceptable IMO. If the Soviet Union survives into the 21st century in a particular time line I see the rivalry continuing.
I read some piece of supplemental material (I have no idea if it is fan generated or canon), about Morrow being about rebuilding the US faster than the Soviet Union post WWIII (to prepare for WWIV I guess). This made sense for me as something that the COT would latch onto. Yes getting individuals to join would be hard, but convincing multi=billionaires to change their paths would be even harder in my opinion. The tech they are demonstrated will not bring them long term wealth or power. The decisions that they make are not for themselves. In a cold war environment I certainly see using the fear that the Red Bear will conquer everything as a significant motivator. Remember this project starts in the 50's and the USSR is going to be the source of the missiles that rip the heart out of the US. Sure once the Bear is gone it is easy to forget them, but given the times the COT came out of, I am sure "beating" them in some way would be a focus.
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#9
11-20-2010, 09:33 PM
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I'm sorry if you think that's chauvinistic. But it's not. I've talked to to many immigrants to this country (both legal and not) who said they came here for the opportunities that our Republic provided. The Morrow Project was focused on the USA, but the Atlantis Project was focused on the rest of the world. So if the game seems too centred on the USA... well, it was set in a shattered USA in a post-TEOTWAWKI. And they didn't describe what happened to the rest of the world in the main book or other sourcebooks. The reason why T2013 failed to catch on was many. Not the fact it was focused so heavily on the USA market. Quote:
__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
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