Barrel Wear for 105mm Howitzers

[Webstral]

I've been trying to find references for how long 105mm howitzer barrels last. The best I've been able to come up with so far is around 7000 or 7500. Does anyone have better information than this? I'm specifically curious about the M101, M102, and M119, plus all variants of these weapons.

Webstral

[chico20854]

Doing a quick google-foo, it seems it depends on a piece by piece basis, and at the end of WWII it was decided that a simple rounds per-tube measure was inadequate. With that said, a WWII-era M-101 had an expected service life of 8000 rounds.

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/eto/eto-098.pdf gives a lot of detail as of June 1945.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

While not actually finding any info on the number of rounds (a good find there Chico) I did read some articles that indicated that just like firearms, ammunition type plays a big part in the service life of artillery barrels. Some older ammunition types were accepted as being corrosive and the introduction of newer types meant longer barrel life.

To be very generalized, I think that if the GM decides an artillery piece has been well used then it will have some accuracy & range limitations but if the piece has seen 'average' use then it can probably continue on without needing a barrel change (particularly given the limited opportunities to fire it once the war has ended)

[Legbreaker]

It's not exactly artillery, but my grandfather managed to wear out two .303 SMLE barrels between 1941 and 1945 even though he was a Beaufort (Australian two engine bomber) engineer for much of that time and did not see ground combat (although did shoot at a few Zero's with his rifle from the aircraft).

He was firing incendiary and armour piercing rounds...

[jester]

I would also add that cleaning would also play a role. Firing a corrossive ammo then not cleaning it would add to barrel wear as the corrosive salts would have more time to eat away the metal. As well as the intensity of the fire. Firing ALOT without letting the barrel cool would cause greater wear, so LOTS of fire missions back to back, vice one fire mission then nothing then another here and there even though the same number of rounds would be fired in a month, the more rounds fired at one go would cause greater wear.

And as was said the type of rounds, some rounds are lower velocity than others, an example, a 203 firing an illum round vice an HE round, same with the artillery, an illum or even a canister well they are lighter rounds with less frction than a traditional HE thus less wear.

And again maintenance would play a part too. A gun left on the docks suffering the effects of salt air vice one in a dry desert, well one would suffer more enviromental effects than the other. But, then again the effects of the scouring action of desert or even lots of fine dirt and grit in the air and coating equipment acting as emery powder would also account for greater wear.

There are so many factors that do affect a weapons wear.

[weswood]

While on ths subject of howitzers, when did the US phase out the towed versions? Real life & in the game?

[copeab]

Originally Posted by weswood

While on ths subject of howitzers, when did the US phase out the towed versions? Real life & in the game?

The M119 105mm towed howitzer is still in use by the US (in the Twilight War it probably would be used along with the older M102).

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by copeab

The M119 105mm towed howitzer is still in use by the US (in the Twilight War it probably would be used along with the older M102).

In particular, the US Marines still use towed artillery instead of self-propelled artillery, as do light infantry formations, the 82nd Airborne, the 173rd Airborne Brigade, and the 101st Air Assault Division. I don't know if it's still true, but when I was in the National Guard (1983-86), they still used substantial amounts of towed artillery. In the Marines and Army, however, most of the 105mm guns have been replaced by the M-777 light 155mm gun (actually a British design adopted by the US).

[weswood]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

In particular, the US Marines still use towed artillery instead of self-propelled artillery, as do light infantry formations, the 82nd Airborne, the 173rd Airborne Brigade, and the 101st Air Assault Division. I don't know if it's still true, but when I was in the National Guard (1983-86), they still used substantial amounts of towed artillery. In the Marines and Army, however, most of the 105mm guns have been replaced by the M-777 light 155mm gun (actually a British design adopted by the US).

Aahhhh. I remembered seeing them years ago, while I was in the Corps, but I haven't seen anything on them game wise or in the news so I thought they had been retired.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by weswood

Aahhhh. I remembered seeing them years ago, while I was in the Corps, but I haven't seen anything on them game wise or in the news so I thought they had been retired.

The main think to remember is that a howitzer that can be towed by a HUMVEE can, more importantly, be slung under a helicopter like a Blackhawk.

[Webstral]

The 105mm towed howitzer is still quite popular, as our compatriots above have mentioned. The towed 105mm howitzer is popular in many armies throughout the world for its high level of mobility and relatively good punch. In Twilight: 2000 terms, the humble towed 105mm howitzer will be either the most common or the next most common field piece in CONUS. My particular reason for asking goes to Thunder Empire and Silver Shogunate (my Nevada work). Fort Huachuca receives 24 of the M119 105mm pieces in October, 1997 as a part of the Contingency Division's efforts to prepare CONUS for a nuclear exchange. The ongoing nuclear exchange overseas has made delivery of the guns dubious. Rather than have them sit around in a depot, the CD sends them (along with a host of other equipment) on to Huachuca. From December, 1997 onward, replacement barrels become a rather iffy prospect. From the standpoint of Fort Huachuca, replacement barrels become a near impossibility from June 1998 onward. Therefore, barrel wear and proper care of the howitzers is going to be a primary concern for the Huachucans. In Nevada, the Shogun definitely isn't going to be able to obtain spare barrels for his single 105mm gun, so his officers will be terribly interested in making the most of the equipment in hand.

Thanks for the helpful replies.

Webstral

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by weswood

Aahhhh. I remembered seeing them years ago, while I was in the Corps, but I haven't seen anything on them game wise or in the news so I thought they had been retired.

There's an article about the M-777 in this months Military Machines International, about it in service with a Stryker Brigade.