New to Twilight 2000

[kato13]

Dolgo 07-08-2005, 07:05 PM I played Twilight 2000 a long time ago and have recently decided to play again. I would like a brief example of combat, 2 people shooting at each other and answers to the following questions:

1: ROF, do you roll to see if you hit with each round?

2: 45cal gun has 6 bullets in a clip(Mag 2)? And with a ROF of 2 as well

does that mean I can empty a 45clip in 1 round?

3: What parts of the body does the kevlar vests/jackets cover?

4: Do starting players have to spend their money on the vehicles they roll in character generation.


Thank you for anyhelp you can give me

http://showmehowyoublog.blogspot.com

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Antenna 07-08-2005, 07:53 PM Welcome aboard Dolgo.


becouse you talk v1.0 T2k I won't answer any question not couse I'm arrogant just becouse I play v2.2 instead and are not familiar with v1.0 any longer (I use my own houserules also so I really keep myself from answering)


Antenna

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pmulcahy 07-08-2005, 09:15 PM ROF: There are several ratings for ROF. If there is a number, this is the burst size for automatic fire. You can fire 5 such bursts per phase. Semiautomatic allows 5 shots per phase, lever-action, bolt-action and single-action revolver allow one shot per phase, pump-action and double-action revolver allow 3 shots per phase.


The rough correlation between v1 and v2.2 is one shot = 3 rounds, but it is not exact. You couldn't really empty your M-1911 in one phase, because it has 7 rounds, and the semiautomatic rate of fire is only 5 shots per phase.


In game terms, flak jackets of all types cover the chest and abdomen. (In real life, there are other types of body armor, but that's way down on the list of stuff I work on for my site...) IIRC, Kevlar helmets cover the head on a roll of 1-2 from the front, 1-3 from the side, and 1-4 from the rear. Regular helmets are 1, 1-2, and 1-3 respectively.


When you get your vehicle(s) in character generation, they don't cost you anything; in addition, (again, IIRC), they get a full complement of ammo for their organic weapons and a full tank of whatever fuel the GM decides to give you. All this will be up to the GM, of course.

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ReHerakhte 07-09-2005, 12:40 AM Hello Dolgo,

You've been welcomed aboard by our resident Swede and one of the Americans so I'll say G'Day from one of the (small number of) Australians here.


It sounds as though you have either original 1st Ed rules or the reprint by Far Future Enterprises. If you want to go to the trouble, it's worth looking at DriveThruRPG to buy the 2.2 Version on PDF.


Combat plays a little differently from 1st edition because the Coolness Under Fire has been replaced by Initiative. The timeline/history has been changed a bit to suit the later publishing date and overall the rules were brought into line with GDW's D20 system for Traveller: The New Era.

The website for DriveThruRPG has been posted on the boards a few times but for the specific page with the Version 2.2 rulebook is here: -

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=327


Cheers,

Kevin

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TiggerCCW UK 07-09-2005, 05:12 AM Welcome to the boards, from I think the only Northern Irish poster on here. I'm not 100% sure on the V1 rules either, sorry, but what Paul is saying sounds vaguely familiar to the only time I played V1.

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Dolgo 07-09-2005, 04:33 PM Thanks for all your help! I didn't know this was such a world wide game. I should have stated that yes I have the Twilight 2000 v.1 box set. The box has been in a closet for almost 15 years I think. Version 2 is a d20 system, correct? Yes my questions are for v.1 but any insight on how to play is good info for me.

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pmulcahy 07-09-2005, 04:46 PM v2.2 (and to a lesser extent, V2) are d20 systems, but they are NOT like WOTC's d20 system. This d20 system was developed by GDW a long time ago, and in my mind, it is far superior to the d20 system used by WOTC for modern games. WOTC's d20 system is great for fantasy-based games, but it doesn't really work for modern, espionage, or futuristic RPGs -- GDWs d20 system does. (For the most part; it does have some weaknesses.)

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ReHerakhte 07-10-2005, 01:46 AM As Paul said, the D20 OGL by WOTC is not very good for some games, if you want anything with a gritty, hard edged or lethal feel, you just can't seem to get it when the PC's have 70 hit points and the weapons they face do 1d8 damage!

And I completely agree with him in the opinion that GDW's D20 system is superior. I think it's much more usable because for instance, you can add modifications without causing major problems with other rules, take a look at the rules Paul has on his site for vision devices and the + to Observation skill for example.

http://www.pmulcahy.com/equipment/vision_devices.html


The other thing to mention about the 2nd edition (and the 2.2 version of 2nd edition) is that weapons stats use the real world magazine size and Rate Of Fire of the weapon decides how many single shots or bursts you can get off in an action. And from memory 1st Ed. uses a percentile skill for task resolution while 2nd Ed. uses a "level of difficulty" that uses the skill at different levels to determine task resolution (i.e. in 2nd Ed. from memory, it's Auto Pass, Average, Difficult, Formidable and Auto Fail while 2.2 uses Auto Pass, Easy, Average, Difficult, Formidable, Impossible and Auto Fail - no matter which version of 2nd Ed. these levels divide or multiply your skill to reflect how easy or hard it is to pass that task)


Hope you have a long stay here Dolgo, there's plenty of folks here happy to answer questions and find out info on various things relating to the game.


Cheers,

Kevin

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Dolgo 07-10-2005, 12:43 PM Thanks Kevin!

I will more than likely pick up the ver.2.2 rules via PDF and see how they are. I will first play a ver. 1 just for old times. Any more info on any of the systems is much welcomed. My thoughts on the new d20 systems that everyone seems to be using know a days is the fact that with a status quo no one will try to build better. I enjoy trying out different systems to see another way or another structure. One of my biggest problems with d20 (new, not sure about GDW's) is shooting a gun, or hitting someone with a sword is built on strength. How does strength have to do with calming yourself, using a correct stance or any number of factors. I fill that swinging a sword (sure you must be strong enough to hold the sword) or shooting a gun is a skill and not attached to an attribute such as Strength. If I should shoot at you, its up to me and my skill. You need to be behind cover, or running, or whatever you can to make it harder for my skill to hit you. D20 (new) has this level defense bull that says "hey I've been doing this for a while and have shot or stabbed some monster a couple of times so my defense is put into your skill equation". That doesn't make sense to me. If I'm a good shot then, bang, your hit. What do you guys think?

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ReHerakhte 07-12-2005, 05:35 AM With the GDW D20 system in Version 2.2 of Twilight, your Skill is added to your Attribute (i.e. Strength, Constitution, Intelligence etc.) to form your Asset number. This Asset is what most of your tasks are tested against (sometimes the task is tested against the Attribute itself).


Strength still figures a lot for weapons use but I think that is largely because most game designers find it acceptable even if they aren't really happy with it. You can argue that other things should come into play and you could certainly make it more realistic by having bonus or penalty additions for stance, familiarity with the weapon, stress etc. but I think that often makes combat take too damned long! So in Ver. 2.2, Strength is still used as a controlling Attribute for Small Arms Skill but its primary use is for controlling recoil which roughly put, works out as the higher your Strength, the more recoil you can take before your shots are wildly off target! Your actual Skill still plays a big part because it can always improve and make you a better shot etc.


Such things as distance to target, cover, movement etc. will make it harder for you to hit the target, but that's all normal game stuff that you would expect to make it harder. And you can try to compensate for that by getting better equipment or improving your skill or something as simple as moving closer to the target!


A lot of the criticism of 1st edition was of the rules and not the gameworld and for most of the critics, 2nd Ed. and then Version 2.2 made a simpler to use rules-set that didn't sacrifice the feel of the 1st Ed. gameworld. I came into the game at 2nd Ed. and personally feel that Ver. 2.2 is one of the better rules-sets around for any modern or near future game even though there are still a few little problems here and there (like no proper rules for use of attacking aircraft, i.e. no skill for aerial bombing or gunnery etc.)

But aside from proving that I'm a Version 2.2 fanboy, that's about all I can think of for the moment!


Cheers,

Kevin

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Dolgo 07-12-2005, 08:15 AM Well said Kevin. That does make sense about Strength when it comes to recoil. I will certainly pick up the ver.2.2 rules and I know I will like them. What do you think about the new D20 rules that are everywhere?

Brandon

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thefusilier 07-14-2005, 11:08 PM Hey,


A Canadian here welcoming you to forum. Yeah vs2 type rules are way better I think. Ha, my name is Brandon too! Later

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ReHerakhte 07-15-2005, 05:18 AM ... What do you think about the new D20 rules that are everywhere?

Brandon


For use with fantasy games such as DnD I don't have a big problem with the use of level-up rules and the D20 Open Game Licence (OGL) rules from WOTC work quite fine with that but I probably accept them for fantasy games because most of the fantasy RPGs I have been exposed to are all of the "epic" or "heroic" style.


I think that the D20 OGL has helped to push RPGaming back onto the shelf somewhat but I also think that it has smothered some of the creativity seen in RPG design because why bother creating a gameworld and a rules-set to work with it when you can just jump onboard the D20 OGL wagon? So, in my opinion, we have seen a massive number of mediocre supplements and adventures published for DnD that would not even have been sniffed at in the past. And the trend towards publishing via PDF means we have also seen a big increase in the amount of crap supplements being released.


I am a bit worried that the obsessive drive to publish RPG stuff for the D20 OGL will lead to a lack of effort on the part of some publishers and worse, push non-D20 OGL games further off the store shelves. A fair portion of the D20 OGL crowd like the rules because it gives you a very definite reward whereas a system like Twilight 2000 has a very slow climb as you raise skills and even then it is no certainty that with these newly raised skills you can simply defeat the bad guys you encountered three sessions ago. In DnD, once you hit that next level, all the old bad guys you fought are now that much easier to kill off. I personally like the uncertainty factor when you face an enemy, with DnD and the D20 OGL, you simply don't have that fear when you encounter something that's a few level lower than you, in fact, in the rules it states that you shouldn't really encounter them again because they are no longer a suitable challenge.

I'm not so much into the instant gratification thing that DnD provides, I like to see my PCs develop their 'characterization' rather than their ability to simply kill things.


But I've waffled on long enough!

Cheers,

Kevin

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graebardeII 07-16-2005, 05:25 AM Welcome, welcome, welcome.


And to all the oldies on the list howdy. Note I had to change my dang account name.. the password I had would not be accepted and I fought with them for a month I think to get it fixed, finally just changed the dang account. sigh.

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