Parris Island - From Archive

[kato13]

Blackrider 11-16-2005, 09:43 PM with all the discussion over the military academy at west point, i was wondering, what happened to the units at the marine corps. training depot at parris island? ideas

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thefusilier 11-16-2005, 10:07 PM I figure still there... subordinate to Civgov loyal state governement and Civgov Military Region III command.


There is access to ocean food resources and there isn't any large threats in the area.


I also have the King's Bay sub base secured with a battalion from the Camp Blanding garrison (Georgia based 108th Division? I can't remember). Because a naval base to replace Charleston and less troops in Blanding for New America to keep isolated and surrounded (as mentioned) was my reasoning.

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Targan 11-17-2005, 12:27 AM I don't know, I just can't see USMC units siding with CivGov. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Head of MilGov is a USMC General, for crying out loud.

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thefusilier 11-17-2005, 05:53 AM Very true and good point, but is there a chance Parris Island might not know anything about Milgov, or suffer from misinformation given to them by the state? Do they have communications ability to be in contact with anyone outside the state? Are they self sufficient or would they require help from the state and its resident brigade (184th? I cant remember)?Just some variables that might make for an unexpected decision. My answer to Parris was just based on my own version of events in the area thats all.

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Targan 11-17-2005, 06:31 AM Fair enough, if the Marines on Paris Island wanted to stay put and were completely isolated from MilGov forces, reaching agreement with CivGov forces nearby would make sense. Perhaps the Marine Commander would reserve the right to maintain an independent command while agreeing to operational cooperation with CivGov and or State forces. I can see USMC units having closer ties with some State governments, as many Governors declared for MilGov. So the Paris Island contingent could perhaps guarantee to provide security within an agreed zone of control, observe a non-agression and even trade pact with the nearest CivGov regular units, and maybe provide training cadres to State Militia forces or host militia leaders for specialised instruction.

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thefusilier 11-17-2005, 06:38 AM Thats another good point and storyline to follow.

Too bad these guys and alot of the other bases were never mentioned in any of the sourcebooks. Or on the other hand it gives us players more freedom to create our own without purposley deviating from canon (which some players might not like... as experience before).

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DeaconR 11-17-2005, 06:59 AM I've heard others say that Cummings is a USMC general but I have never found any information to support that. I thought he was an army general. Anyway, I've noticed this: the canon seems to mostly point at information that would be generally known by the players.


Here's a good example.

In "Airlords of the Ozarks" the Governor in Little Rock has 1200 state militia in his service. He is aligned with Milgov. Forces not mentioned btw in the sourcebooks.


In my game most of the marines stationed on the southeastern coast were added to units overseas, and some of those were on ships sunk by enemy submarines. There are a scattering left mostly added as subordinate units to naval and army formations.

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thefusilier 11-17-2005, 07:17 AM I too can't be certain, but the issue of him being in the USMC was discussed here before. I think someone pointed to the Kidnapped module... which unfortunately is one of the last ones I have yet to aquire.


Sorry I am not sure what you are getting at with the 1200 state militia part. Could you explain again. Sorry if its simple, its been a long day.

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Blackrider 11-17-2005, 08:22 AM well in the "gateway to the spanish main" the father of his daughter in law was former airborne NCO, and formerly his plt sgt in nam, stating he was airborne.... meaning... Cummings was Army.


as to the marines siding with CivGov.... thats a bit ify if you ask me most marine NCOs i met have a inborn dislike of politicans.


the national guard commanders are state apointed so thats where thier loyalty would lie.

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thefusilier 11-17-2005, 08:57 AM as to the marines siding with CivGov.... thats a bit ify if you ask me most marine NCOs i met have a inborn dislike of politicans.


the national guard commanders are state apointed so thats where thier loyalty would lie.


All good points. I couldn't remember what the answer was after the Cummings debate last time. It may also be true about the siding with Civgov based on their dislike for politicians, but if it comes down to needing help with food or something, new loyalties can come easy. Or as I mentioned, having no (or correct) knowledge about Milgov might make it an easier choice for Parris Island. There is nothing written, so its all up to our own imaginations I guess.

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Enforcer 11-17-2005, 11:39 AM Being a marine on detached duty to the civilian world (honorable discharge, LOL), I can tell you, the USMC would only serve the president of the US, not any other civilian. And if memory serves, the new president strongarmed himself into office, they would follow the joint chiefs (at least the Commadant of the marine Corps). A "small" base like Parris Island would more tan likely move operations to another base, like Cherry Point, and continue operations there.


However, I personally didn't go through Parris island, I went through San Diego MCRD, which would have headed north to Camp Pendleton, since their feild training is conducted there.

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DeaconR 11-18-2005, 03:29 AM The only problem with them moving to Cherry Point is that in the game North Carolina is described as being in chaos. However, there is your out: basically state that they did move to Cherry Point/Camp Lejeune as suggested and that subsequently due to the raging fires or whatever other problems you want to suggest that communications abilities beyond a certain range have been critically damaged.


I think that since this is a post apocalyptic scenario and given how utterly devastating it is it is not impossible for the Marines to have chosen to side with Civgov if they have the only infrastructure around that is at least attempting to rebuild America. Especially since the America in 2001 in the game is depicted as being on the edge of collapse.


That being said, I like my scenario as pictured above best; that they are not on the order of battle because they have been too busy and haven't been able to fix up their communications yet.

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Rainbow Six 11-18-2005, 03:30 PM The fate of Parris Island has always intrigued me. One of the first things that I did when I got my first PC with internet access was print of a whole load of stuff from the official Parris Island website, with a view to writing up some sort of order of battle (I should say that I have a lot of these great ideas, but never seem to find the time). Oddly enough, I actually looked at some of this stuff not so long ago.


I would definitely say loyal to Military Government. Because they're Marines...


Propose some initial desertions in immediate aftermath of Thanksgiving strikes, but considered the possibility of reinforcement by Navy personnel and cadets from the Citadel Military Academy. (Admittedly, in the write up that I had planned, I was going to tweak the canon to have the Charleston missile miss, detonating far enough off shore to minimise damage). Very limited numbers of APC's, no more than one or two tanks. IIRC there is also a Naval Hospital in the area, which would come under the Parris Island Garrison, and also the scope for some air units (albeit with virtually no fuel).


Also got as far as looking at the possibility of securing the Savannah River site and linking up with a Training cadre of the 75th Ranger Regiment at Fort Stewart to form a reasonably strong MilGov enclave in the SC / Georgia border area, with some low intensity conflict with Civ Gov forces based out of Fort Benning. Also considered friendly contact with the Engineers at Fort Jackson (30th??) - basically, the Marines trying to induce the Engineers to declare for MilGov...

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thefusilier 11-18-2005, 08:58 PM I'm trying to say just because we players know what is going on dosn't mean everybody in America is up to date on current events. There was a series of devastating nuclear attacks, communications won't be like it was. Should we take it for granted that every garrison knows the the details about Civgov and Milgov? Dawn's Early Light is a good example of the confusion and chaos that would occur. I just think its too easy and simple to say because they are marines they will automatically side with Milgov. There is no Milgov in the part of the United States.

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DeaconR 11-19-2005, 08:29 AM Frankly, I agree with fusilier.


The 1200 militia I referred to earlier were mentioned in "Airlords of the Ozarks" as a military body subject to the authority of the Governor of Arkansas but principally operating around just within about 30 kilometers of Little Rock. They are not mentioned in any Order of Battle for the USA yet they exist.


The unit I just mentioned are a perfect example of the fact that in the game sometimes units are not in any list because they only operate on a local basis and have no direct ties to any higher authority. It does not matter if this is because of poor communications or whatever reason.


There are literally hundreds of military outfits in all the game's orders of battles that are not mentioned. A good example would be that in the Survivor's Guide to the UK there is no mention of the fate of the soldiers of the 2nd or 4th Infantry Divisions. For the USA there is no mention of INSCOM, some of the Special Forces and SEAL Teams, Ranger units, or any details about most of the US Air Force and Navy. You could take this to mean that only the ones listed survived.


However, I have another interesting example. On Orrin Ladd's site there is a description of an Ordnance Brigade in Alabama which is stated to have originally supported Milgov but has ended up having to be independant due to being cut off from any link with higher command. This seems to be a frequent occurence in TW2000. Perhaps these marines also have lacked supplies.


I would suggest that making them unaligned makes encountering them more interesting. It would mean that the players themselves might end up being responsible for what these marines believe about the US government and the state it is in.

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Enforcer 11-19-2005, 11:35 AM Interesting idea. The lowest ranking member of any of these units would be Corporal (not many drill insrtuctors would be that low, but some admin types would be). I am sure some First Sergeant or higher would realize the viability problem, and move the unit (easier to train closer to real combat units than to keep them isolated in a case of the Twilight War). However I say, if you are running it, go ahead and keep them the way you want, in my game world, they (like all of the services training units, with the possible exception of the Coast Guards, who bacame Dept. of Justice/Homeland Security) would remain loyal to the joint chiefs.

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[Olefin]

While the canon doesn’t address Parris Island in V1, the V2.2 canon does.

The East Africa Kenya Sourcebook has the 30th Marine Regiment sent to Kenya to provide the American forces there with amphibious warfare and ship board security troops, including boarding parties to be used to suppress the pirate activity off the Eastern coast of Africa.

The 30th Marines was cobbled together in 1998 from troops withdrawn from Guantanamo and the last class of Marines being trained at Parris Island and Camp Lejeune, along with their drill instructors, and then shipped to Kenya, where it was joined by a detachment from FAST Company, Atlantic and several USMC security detachments that had arrived in Kenya when the US had evacuated many of their embassies in Africa. It was equipped with whatever vehicles and armor was available, most of which were training vehicles stationed at the two bases, many of which have had considerable use already.

The Marine drill instructors from Parris Island and Camp Lejeune, upon arrival in Kenya, were used to set up a recruit depot and training facility at Mombasa which has trained over 400 new Marines since it was set up to reinforce the 30th, with the recruits being drawn from the expat and refugee community in Kenya. The Regiment, as a result of that, includes Americans, British, Canadians, Australians and Belgians and has been nicknamed “the American Foreign Legion. They are currently training a large group of excess USN and USAF personnel from CENTCOM who have volunteered to join the Marines and who, once they complete their training, will be used to rebuild the strength of the 1st and 3rd Marine Divisions in Iran.