The TMP Manor System

[kalos72]

A little idea I am working on...if anyone else has anything written out on along this line, I would LOVE to see it.

"The Manor System

Once the idea of using Staten Island as the initial base of operations for food production was agreed upon, Command needed to determine the best way to organize the efforts, both for the short and long term. They didn’t want to have to manage the entire process internally, so they drew upon the ideas of a feudalistic model of vassalage. Command would entice trustworthy and capable civilians to manage the day to day affairs of the farms for them, earning a percentage of the product for themselves as a “tithe” while the majority of the product would be sent to the “Project” to support the rest of the population.

In a system like this, the Command wouldn’t have to worry about the daily details of 1000’s of acres of land and at the same time, it would promote a renewed sense of “community” for the civilians working the farms as well as the “Lord” running it. It would foster a more selfish drive for the “Project” to succeed knowing that the more successful it is, the more land that will be needed to feed the every growing population. The more land needed, the more Lords running them. For the select few, a brighter future isn’t as far away as it once seemed."


I am working on the details on the system itself but this is the idea...

[Targan]

Sounds good. Shouldn't this thread be in The Morrow Project section?

[kalos72]

Hmm...not sure. I am running it in a T2K campaign though.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong place.

[kato13]

I remember your previous posts about rebuilding in the ruins of New York.

I am also planning a hybrid T2k/MP world so often the lines between games get blurred to the point where I am not sure where to ask a question.

If we get very "Project" focused answers this thread might get moved to the MP section. If they are of the more general sense about fudal tithing in a T2k world I guess it can stay here.

To keep this on topic, at least initially, I can totally see CIVGOV and MILGOV (as well as other factions) engaging in, or at least condoning, this practice in situations where they feel there will be gain. Of course the system will eventually lead to a portion of non-trustworthy people being in charge. Abuses and theft would be rampant at all levels and I am not sure that an unelected "Lord" would be able to motivate beyond the use of fear (doth direct and indirect) in the early years.

Going back to the project, I never expected them to engage in anything other than promoting Capitalism once the basics of survival were covered. This being motivated by the Founders capitalistic roots and the very strong us vs them attitude they had towards communism.

[kalos72]

The thing with this scale is that no Lord would be able to front an Army to oppose me they would have just enough manpower to work the lands being about 1 sq mile per Lord.

Another idea was to have each Lord monitored by a Provost, which would be military reporting to the Command.

[Legbreaker]

I like the general idea, although I'm hesitant to use the term "Lord". How many people may take umbrage and cause unnecssary problems?

[kalos72]

I JUST realized why peope thought I was talking bout Morrow Project...hehe!!

My "TMP" stands for "The Manhattan Project".

[Targan]

Ah, now I understand! Yeah, subinfeudation as a process by which to build up agricultural holdings is a great idea. It has worked countless times in real life for thousands of years, it absolutely should work in T2K NYC. I love it.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I JUST realized why peope thought I was talking bout Morrow Project...hehe!!

My "TMP" stands for "The Manhattan Project".

Ah LOL.

[kalos72]

Just realized I didnt update this with my new information...whatcha think?

The Manor System

Once the idea of using Staten Island as the initial base of operations for food production was agreed upon, Command needed to determine the best way to organize the efforts, both for the short and long term. They didn’t want to have to manage the entire process internally, so they drew upon the ideas of a feudalistic model of vassalage. Command would entice trustworthy and capable civilians to manage the day to day affairs of the farms for them, earning a percentage of the product for themselves while the majority of the product would be sent to the “Enclave” to support the rest of the population.

In a system like this, the Command wouldn’t have to worry about the day to day details of 1000’s of acres of land and at the same time, it would promote a renewed sense of “community” for the civilians working the farms. It would foster a more selfish drive for the “Enclave” to succeed knowing that the more successful it is, the more land that will be needed to feed the every growing population. The more land needed, the more civilians needed to run them. For the select few, a brighter future isn’t as far away as it once seemed.

A Manor becomes available whenever Command determines it has additional lands, at least one square mile in size, that are able to be converted into farmland, but can also include ranching or raising livestock among other things. Once the location for the new Manor is decided, operations begin to prepare the land as well as find and train the Lord accordingly.

When a new position is created, the existing Lords are asked first for recommendations for the new position. Preferably, the first options would be an experienced worker already in the Manor system to start with. If they did not yield a suitable candidate, word would be sent out among the population. Sometimes, candidates are chosen in advance in recognition of some outstanding service rendered previously.

Obviously these positions are highly sought after so candidates will be screened very carefully and the expectations being placed upon them clearly defined and explained. These candidates need to know EXACTLY what to expect from the task and what we expect from them, as well as the repercussions should they not give the Enclave a 110%.

Once the decision is made, the new Lord will be sent through a training program as needed. Initially, all tools and labor will be supplied by the Enclave during the first year. We will clear the land and ensure that it is ready for the Lord to take over. Once the harvest is in for the first year, the Lord takes full control of the Manor and the responsibility moves entirely on him for its day to day management and success.

The Lord will be given 40 acres of the land for his own use. This land will be used by the Lord to gather and feed additional workers/guards as needed or to barter for anything he so chooses, as long as the land is maintained accordingly. He can use the extra product to barter for better tools to assist with maintaining the Manor. Or hire more workers for special projects such as clearing rubble from a field or building a bigger warehouse to store his food.

Security of the Manor is also his responsibility. Walking patrols, fire watches posted, observation posts build, what ever is needed to ensure his Manor, and more importantly his product are safe. Anything larger then a single thief or trespasser is addressed by the Enclaves forces. The Lord will report to his Provost as needed as situations arise that are out of his scope.

The Lord has full control over the day to day affairs of his Manor but reports to a Provost who monitors and keeps an every watchful eye on the Manor to ensure success and compliance to “Enclave” mandates.

The Provost will monitor anywhere from 10-15 Lords depending on the situation. He will report directly to a special division of the C&C created to monitor the entire process and is responsible for the overall success of the Manors assigned to him.

The Provost is a member of the MILITARY.

[HorseSoldier]

A couple points -- I think Americans as a group would not be overly keen on the use of Lord or other noble titles. A bit too much ingrained cultural traditions against that sort of thing, Constitutional bans on the federal or state government granting titles of nobility, etc. Calling the same position a Sheriff and his household troops Deputies would side step all that pretty handily, and provide a distinction any American could rapidly sort out to distinguish state-sanctioned but non-military armed forces from the actual military. Or the same thing could be sorted out using some sort of militia rank system versus military rank system, or even something blandly neutral in the spirit of modern municipal government titles, like "Area Manager" or "Regional Administrator" or something.

Second, I'd incorporate some mechanism for a dissatisfied populace to get rid of their guy if he's a dud -- and having spent a good chunk of time in SOF units, I've reached the realization that no matter how rigorously you screen applicants, you'll still get some absolute imbeciles who make it through the process, as well as the occasional guys who, for whatever reason, evolve into duds even if they were good to go earlier in their career. Elections would actually be a pretty good mechanism in that respect, but given that the military is setting up this system, perhaps a very powerful Inspector General's office with fairly sweeping powers to sanction or remove ineffectual or counterproductive guys, and a pretty good sized force of agents to investigate issues might be a more likely approach.

Finally, if this is going to be taking place on the urbanized/suburbanized, but now very thinly populated, terrain in and around NYC, I would think rather than the military doing all the legwork on clearing the land, it might work better to found enclaves around park land, golf courses, or other terrain that is already cleared and have the lord and his populace tasked to clear and salvage additional land. Some organized Combat Engineer units with heavy equipment could be organized to assist with major tasks, but salvaging/clearing stuff like suburban residential neighborhoods and light industrial areas circa 2000 would likely be most efficiently accomplished with hand tools and sweat equity.

[atiff]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Second, I'd incorporate some mechanism for a dissatisfied populace to get rid of their guy if he's a dud <SNIP> Elections would actually be a pretty good mechanism in that respect, but given that the military is setting up this system, perhaps a very powerful Inspector General's office with fairly sweeping powers to sanction or remove ineffectual or counterproductive guys, and a pretty good sized force of agents to investigate issues might be a more likely approach.

What about a "vote by feet" approach?

• Have all residents registered as to which 'manor' they are in (ID papers, etc.).

• Designate one or more days of the year when people could choose to move location and change registration.

• The receiving 'manor'/'lord' has right of refusal of any and all residents wishing to move into their area.

Then someone who is doing well will be in demand, and could be given more land, etc. Someone who is doing a poor job is likely to find himself abandoned and have his holdings reduced.

[kalos72]

I was thinking something about a voting system just hadn't worked out the details.

I was leaning towards the square mile being broken down into smaller farms, say 40-60 acres per and letting those leaders vote each season for the Lord. But then I had to worry about the details on the smaller level farms too and I hadn't gotten that done yet.

As for who does the work, the first round of farms would be placed on cleared land. Then from there, as the area was "reclaimed" by the engineers/salvage teams, it would cleared to earth and then handed over to the next set of Lords. But depending on the condition of the land perhaps the Lord can handle it himself.

As for the foot voting, I like that idea alot actually. But what would happen if a Lord saw all his people leave to go to the other Lords farms. Then they had to come back because that other Lords farm was full? Wouldnt that original Lord get pissy and possibly try to punish them? Perhaps they can voice complaints with the Provost?

As for the names, I dont like the Lord name myself but it was the most obvious considering the obvious feudal implications of the system. You made some good suggestions thanks!

[atiff]

Originally Posted by kalos72

As for the foot voting, I like that idea alot actually. But what would happen if a Lord saw all his people leave to go to the other Lords farms. Then they had to come back because that other Lords farm was full? Wouldnt that original Lord get pissy and possibly try to punish them? Perhaps they can voice complaints with the Provost?

And therein lies the politics Anyway, here's a very simple idea of what could happen.

Lord A has a happy, prosperous region. None wish to leave, but he has no room for more.
Lord B's people are satisfied. None wish to leave, and he has some room for more.
Lord C's people are unhappy. 100 wish to leave. They want to go to Lord A, but he can't/won't take them, so they go to Lord B.

Lord A sees more people want to join him. He requests more land from the Provost. How can he get more? Can he maintain his region at the current high level?
Lord B has to deal with an expanding population (growing pains). Can he maintain his region at a good level? What will that take? What will happen if things start to get worse?
Lord C is losing people, and therefore status. Will the Provost take away some of his lands? Will he "get pissy" with those that remain? Or will he take action against the lands of the other Lords? Or will he change his ways?

I see many plot elements here, even in this simple scenario.

[kalos72]

Thats true that system would weed out the bad managers and highlight the good ones as well as give the people a feeling of control over their lives, if albeit imaginary. :P

But then you could get one manager getting too much land and becoming a threat himself. Popular uprising anyone?