Waterpurification

[kato13]

General Pain 04-23-2008, 07:41 AM anyone got some good info on this?


Should be a must to have when the shit hits the fan....

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Lt_Kamikaze 04-23-2008, 06:28 PM anyone got some good info on this?


Should be a must to have when the shit hits the fan....


I remember reading and being taught something of a quick water cleanser: make a filter out of moss, cole, and again moss. Pour the water through. The cole is apparently supposed to be a kind of poor man's active carbon. Don't have any references to give, just something I remember hearing.

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Neal5x5 04-24-2008, 02:39 PM anyone got some good info on this?


Should be a must to have when the shit hits the fan....


Are you looking for information on a personal survival or a community utility kind of scale?

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Targan 04-24-2008, 11:46 PM This week I watched a program on ABCTV here in Australia about a desert survival course run by the Australian Army for Australian Defence Forces personnel. The participants on the course only had access to salty, brackish water for five days so they were distilling drinkable water using a metal jerry can, some hose and some heavy duty plastic sheeting/bags. It took them 8 to 12 hours to distill 5 litres of drinkable water using just one distilling rig. It was a very simple setup too.

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Hangfire7 04-25-2008, 01:28 AM Filtering works, some of the items you can use to filter it are:


Lava Rock


Charcoal <please not the stuff with mesquite or easy light stuff that will poison you>


Clay


Tile <unglazed>


Several meters of clay, sand or gravel


And of course a filter strainer which can be fabric or as you guys mentioned moss or similiar.


I personal have plans and has tested one using water that has been cleaned with a few drops of bleach, then sunlight then filtered through gravel, plastic mesh, sand, mesh then charcoal and let it drip into a basin. And let it just trickle through filtering through all of the above. The sand and gravel act as a strainer, the charcoal removes alot of chemicals <remember charcoal is the active ingredient in most chemical protective suites and gas mask filters> and the bleach early on kills the living nasties.


I stuff actualy layer all of the above in a section of I think its 8 inch clay pipe that is about a meter long and just pour about two or three inches on the top and let it filter down slowly not letting more water on top to cause extra pressure, just let it filter down naturaly.



I had pondered this idea for sometime and just did it, and I am still alive so I guess it works

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kcdusk 04-27-2008, 03:35 AM 1)

Boil water, turn it to steam, have something above the "pot" of boiling water to catch the steam and have it run down into your other container. Drink freash water when cool ...


(have i missed something, or is that too easy???)



2)

At night, have a bit of plastic/cling wrap streatched out but sitting above a bucket/container. Sit a small pebble on the cling wrap above the middle of the bucket/containter/ Then any condesation will hit the cling wrap and run to the low point (due to the pebble) and fall into the bucket/container.


OKaayyy, so what if there is no condesation? Put leaves from trees in the bucket (eucalypt is my favourite, or good old fashion gum tree leaves), then over night as it sweats the water condeses again on the cling wrap and drips into your bucket (with added flavour!!!).


These methods would work ok for one or two people, i couldnt see it working on a comercial scale.



(Hangfire, its been two or three days now as opposed to a few hours since you tried your method out - are you still, still alive??? :-)


.

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O'Borg 04-28-2008, 02:45 AM 1)

2)

At night, have a bit of plastic/cling wrap streatched out but sitting above a bucket/container. Sit a small pebble on the cling wrap above the middle of the bucket/containter/ Then any condesation will hit the cling wrap and run to the low point (due to the pebble) and fall into the bucket/container.


OKaayyy, so what if there is no condesation? Put leaves from trees in the bucket (eucalypt is my favourite, or good old fashion gum tree leaves), then over night as it sweats the water condeses again on the cling wrap and drips into your bucket (with added flavour!!!).



Properly called a Solar Still (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_still). I remember seeing a docu-drama about an atlantic yachtsman who sank and spend months adrift in a liferaft before washing ashore in the Caribean islands. He had a nautical version of a solar still that floated. Plus he was smart enough to have a small bail out bag carrying extra supplies and a copy of a book from some other poor bugger who sank in mid-atlantic and spent months adrift before washing ashore

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Neal5x5 04-28-2008, 09:34 AM Water that has been boiled for three minutes (at an active, rolling boil) will kill just about every organism you will encounter. The problem is if there is a chemical or radioactive contaminant. In that case, boiling may make it worse because it can aerosolize the contaminant. Likewise, water distilled from the air can contain any aerosolized contaminants, such as residual nerve gas.


Also, if the chemical contamination is severe, simply handling the water can be dangerous. Finally, the water may be physically safe to drink, but there can be residual taste and odor issues that will make it intolerable to humans.


Ironically enough, some of the biggest water contamination threats in a post-apoc world would come from water treatment facilities because of the caustic nature of the chemicals used and thier close proximity to the water source. A leak from a slowly eroding chlorine or chloramine tank into a distribution system could produce deadly results for the unwary.

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General Pain 05-01-2008, 08:30 AM i just posted 3 dox on our site


check link below and go to equipment

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[swaghauler]

Wallshadow isn't the only Necromancer in this forum. Below are some guidelines for purifying water. As you all know, my campaign is set in Africa in the present world. Water is a BIG DEAL in Africa. There are a number of different contaminants and some are easier to deal with than others. These Contaminants are:

Particulates:

This can be any kind of debris floating in the water. It is the easiest to remove by simply filtering the water with a porous material such as cloth or a combination of sand, clean grass (like the thrushes found by ponds) and clean gravel. Adding Charcoal from a wood fire will add a "filtering effect" for certain chemicals and many biological threats as well. A Routine(1.5 X Skill): Biology or Average(Skill): Survival will build an effective Charcoal filter against Microbes and Bacteria. Many commercial filters will remove particulates as well. Particulates will reduce the effectiveness of chemical treatments (by slowing down the reaction) so water undergoing chemical treatment should be filtered first.

Microorganisms:

This consists of very small creatures like the ameba that can cause illness. They can be killed by boiling, chemically, or be filtered out of water by a 1 to 5 Micron filter. Examples include; Amebic Dysentery, Giardia, Cryptosporidium.

Bacteria:

Smaller than microorganisms, bacteria can be killed by boiling, chemically, or filtered out of water by a 0.2 to 1-micron filter.Examples include; Cholera, E-Coli, Legionaire's Disease, and Salmonella.

Viruses:

The smallest of the living dangers in water. They can be killed by boiling or chemical treatment, but can pass through most filters because they are often less than 1 Micron in size. Examples include; Hepatitis A, Rotavirus, and Norovirus

Chemical Contamination:

These are "man-made" hazards in water. Some can be "boiled off," while others can be "chemically neutralized." Very few chemicals can be filtered out of water.

Radiological Contamination:

The most dangerous of all contaminations. Potassium Iodide (the only treatment for radiation poisoning) will be too rare to use and may not be effective. Radioactive water should be avoided at all costs.



Here are some "real world" methods of making water safe to drink, commonly used by hikers and people living in "The Third World."

Boiling:

Boiling in the NUMBER ONE method of purification. Boiling water for 5 to 10 minutes plus 1 minute for every 300 meters in elevation will kill Bacteria, Viruses, and occasionally remove chemical contamination (depending on what that contamination is) by "boiling it off."

Iodine Treatment:

Water can be treated with Iodine either in tablet form or using good old Tincture of Iodine. Most Iodine Purifier Tablets [Cost= $11 (V/V), Wt= 0.025kg] use TWO TABLETS PER LITER and take 30 MINUTES to work. This method will kill ALL LIVING ORGANISMS (including viruses). Tincture of Iodine will require 5 DROPS PER LITER and 30 MINUTES of TIME to purify. There are some issues with this system though. This system works best when the temperature is ABOVE 68F/21C. The system WILL BEGIN TO FAIL at temperatures BELOW 40F/4.4C as it is too cold for the chemical reaction to properly occur. People using Lithium, Pregnant women, and individuals with Thyroid conditions SHOULD NOT USE THIS WATER TREATMENT METHOD.

Chlorine Treatment:

Chlorine can be used just like Iodine above. The time frame is the same and Chlorine kills ALL organisms and can chemically "breakdown" a limited number of chemical contaminants. Chlorine Dioxide in either drops or tablets is the best method of purification. This "binary system" (consisting of separate tablets or drops) will kill ALL LIVING ORGANISMS IN 30 MINUTES with TWO TABLETS/DROPS (one of each chemical) PER LITER OF WATER. Commercial Chlorine (like pool chemical chlorine) or household Bleach can also be used. It generally takes 2 DROPS OF BLEACH PER LITER OF WATER and 30 MINUTES to reach purity. This method can be dangerous if too much is used and requires a task roll against EASY(2 X Skill): Biology or Chemistry, or AVERAGE(Skill): Survival to safely purify water with ordinary Bleach or Chlorine. This system also has the same temperature limitations of Iodine above.

Aquamira Water Drops: This binary (two bottle) Chlorine Dioxide purification system requires 7 drops from each small bottle to purify 1 Liter of water. There is enough product to purify 113 Liters and the shelf life of this product is 4 years. It kills all organisms INCLUDING VIRUSES. Price= $15 (C/C), Wt= 0.04kg, Bulk 0.1.

Katadyn Micropur Tablets: This binary chemical system uses tablets containing Chlorine and Dioxide to kill ALL LIVING ORGANISMS in water. One tablet will purify 1 liter of water in 30 minutes. The shelf life is 5 years and the 20 tablet bottle will treat 20 liters of water. Price= $10.95 (C/C), Wt= 0.04kg, Bulk 0.1.

Ultra Violet Purification:

Using bright sunlight to purify water is the "option of last resort" in purification. It requires a bright sun, a clear container (preferably glass with magnifying properties) and filtered water (particulates will reduce the effectiveness of this method). This system requires that the water temperature in the vessel exceed 165F/73.8C. It will kill microorganisms and some bacteria BUT NOT VIRUSES. It removes no chemical contamination. This system requires a ROUTINE(1.5 X Skill): Biology or Chemistry or a DIFFICULT(0.5 X Skill): Survival to produce potable water.

Ultra Violet Light Purifiers:

If the characters have access to a UV Purifier that emits high levels of UV light, the purification is EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN BOILING. But only with a mechanical UV Purifier.

Steripen Adventurer Opti: This pen-like UV Sterilizer will purify water that has been filtered of particulates. Simply insert it into the water and stir with the light on. It will purify 1 liter of water in 90 seconds. It kills ALL LIVING ORGANISMS INCLUDING VIRUSES and can reduce the effects of photo-reactive chemicals. The rechargeable battery is good for 50 uses and the bulb is good for 8000 liters of sterilization. Price= $100 (S/S), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk 1.5.

These are the basic methods of purification. Even mechanical filters will follow the types of filtration above. I will post a selection of filters as soon as I get some of their stats which I am missing at this time.

As Always, use what you want and ignore the rest.

Swag.

[WallShadow]

Coattailing on Swag's post, I can see a Free City of Krakow McGuffin-chase centered on a solar-powered water purification/desalination prototype that had the added benefit of segregating the dissolved minerals into a recoverable form. Anybody remember how much gold is dissolved in ordinary seawater? The old fairy tale of the Magic Salt Grinder, in reverse, comes to mind.

[bobcat]

kinda surprised nobody has brought up reverse osmosis purification and condensation collectors. yes the units used by military water supply units are big and eat a lot of juice. but personal units can be produced with scavenged materials.

[swaghauler]

Here is a selection of water purifiers commonly used by hikers and adventurers in the real world.

Platypus Gravity works:

This is a large gravity powered water filter is equipped with both a "dirty water" and "clean water" bag with the 0.2 Micron filter (with particle separator) in between them. It has an attachment to fill water bottles and Camelback-style hydration bladders. It does NOT FILTER VIRUSES OR MOST CHEMICALS. Flow rate of the filter is 1 Liter per Minute (10 rounds in my system). Price= $120 (C/C), Wt= 0.24kg (empty), Bulk= 2, Filter Life= 1501 Liters.

MSR Autoflow Gravity Filter:

This gravity filter requires a separate container for the water. It will filter particulates and microbes (NO VIRUSES) down to 0.2 Microns at the rate of 1 minute per liter purified. Price= $120 (C/C), Wt= 0.3kg, Bulk= 1.2, Filter Life= 1500 Liters.

Sawyer Mini Filter:

This water filter is a "sewer sucker" or "survival straw." The user simply sucks water through this filter at the rate of CON/10 Liters per minute. The 0.1 Micron filter will block particulate, bacterial and microbial pathogens BUT NOT VIRUSES. The filter is easily clogged and needs to be cleaned frequently. Price= $25 (V/V), Wt= 0.025kg, Bulk= 0.5, Filter Life= 378,000 Liters.

MSR Sweetwater Microfilter:

This hand-pump driven water filter will purify 1 liter per minute through its 0.2-micron filter. It is capable of filtering everything except viruses and certain chemicals. It has an attachment for various water containers including bladders. Price= $90 (V/V), Wt= 0.28kg, Bulk= 1.5, Filter Life= 750 Liters.

Sawyer "Squeeze:"

This filter uses a "squeeze bag" to draw water into the filter. It comes with TWO squeeze bags and a 0.1 Micron filter with a flow rate of 1.7 Liters per minute. This filter is proof against everything but Viruses and certain chemicals and has the greatest filter life of any portable water purifier. Price= $50 (S/S), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk= 1, Filter Life= 3.78 Millon Liters.

Life Straw Survival Straw:

Another "sewer sucker" used primarily as a "backup water purifier." This 0.2-Micron filter will purify CON/10 Liters per Minute but does NOT protect against viruses. Price= $20 (V/V), Wt= 0.03kg, Bulk= 0.5, Filter Life= 1000 Liters.

Katadyn Hiker Pro:

This hand-pump style water filter will flow 1 Liter per Minute and is proof for everything but Viruses. Its 0.2 Micron filter is easily maintainable in the field and it has attachments for various water containers. Price= $85 (V/V), Wt= 0.25kg, Bulk= 2, Filter Life= 75 Liters per cleaning*
*Each cleaning increases filter's Wear Value by 1 until it reaches 10 and is no longer serviceable.

First Need XL Pump Filter:

This filter's claim to fame is that its 0.1 Micron chemically impregnated (activated Charcoal) filter WILL KILL VIRUSES AND REMOVE SEVERAL CHEMICALS from the treated water. Its flow rate is 1.9 Liters per Minute. Price= $115 (S/S), Wt= 0.5kg, Bulk= 2, Filter Life= 567 Liters.

MSR Miniworks EX Pump:

This pump water filter will flow 1 Liter per Minute and is proof against anything but Viruses or Chemicals. Price= $90 (V/V), Wt= 0.22kg, Bulk= 1.75, Filter Life= 2000 liters.

Wojo Water Filter:

This is another product of the Free City of Krakow. It is a gravity style filter with a series of fine mesh screens, sand, gravel, activated Charcoal, and a small amount of salt (above the Charcoal) strategically layered to provide protection from ALL ORGANISMS (including Viruses). It is the size of a large milk bottle and only flows 1/2 a Liter per Minute, but it represents clean water to travelers on the road and is one of Krakow's best selling products. Filter life is limited to only about 250 Liters but there is a discount for a new filter if an old one is turned in during the purchase. Price= $100 (V/V), Wt= 1kg, Bulk= 3, Filter Life= 250 Liters.


Desalinators In Twilight2000:


Most manual/portable desalinators are "one use" pump models for use in life rafts with a unit that must be carefully sterilized and serviced before another use or the multi-use "kitchen pot" style used to desalinate water over a fire. These systems will make both "brackish water" and salt water potable.

Distiller/Desalinator Pot:

This is one of many designs of Distiller/desalinator pots that boil salt water in one vessel and collect it in a second one. It can produce 1 liter of potable water from 2 liters of salt water in ONE HOURS TIME. The water is considered "boiled" for purification purposes. There are no filters or "degradable" components in this pot and they are very common among poorer "live aboard" sailors. Price= $250 (V/V), Wt= 1kg, Bulk 4.

Katadyn Survivor Desalinator:

This hand-pump Desalinator is standard equipment on most rafts. While the filter is replaceable, the membrane MUST be disinfected and serviced following any use. Unit life is 1000 Liters and the unit can produce 105 Liters per hour of HARD WORK (for Fatigue purposes). A container for the water must be present. Price= $2,500 (S/S), Wt= 1.25kg (in case), Bulk= 3. Filter Life= 1000 Liters.

Katadyn Survivor 06 Desalinator:

This is a smaller version of the pump above used primarily by smaller life rafts. The pump produces 0.9 Liters per hour of HARD WORK (for Fatigue purposes) and has a service life of 1000 Liters before cleaning and service is required. Price= $800 (S/S), Wt= 1.2kg, Bulk=2.



As always, use what you want and ignore the rest.

Swag.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by bobcat

kinda surprised nobody has brought up reverse osmosis purification and condensation collectors. yes the units used by military water supply units are big and eat a lot of juice. but personal units can be produced with scavenged materials.

I'm not done yet. I was focusing on backpacking purifiers and "field expedient" water purification for players mostly on foot (like my own often are). I did discuss portable desalinators and will discuss electric reverse osmosis water systems once I get the basic stuff done.

[swaghauler]

The following table adds the various water hazards that were not addressed in the original table while dividing threats into Particulate, Microbial, Bacterial, Viral, Chemical, and Radiological.

Chances Of Water Contamination:

A water source is contaminated on a roll of 17 to 20 (1D20) with the following modifiers added below:

Anarchy/Disputed/Terrorized Territory: +1
Devastated Territory: +2
Encampment: +1
Refugee/Prison Camp: +2
Population 20K or more: +1
Desert: +1
Swamp/Jungle: +3
Mountain: -1
Arctic: -3

Water Contamination Table:
1D20 Roll:........................... Contamination Type:
22+ ............................. Radiation (1D6 Rads per Liter drank)
21 ............................... Radiation (1 Rad per Liter drank)
20 ............................... Chemical, Not Removable
19 ............................... Chemical, UV or Chemically Treatable
18 ............................... Chemical, Filterable (oil or heavy metals)
17 ............................... Viral, Hepatitis A
16 ............................... Bacterial, Legionnaire's Disease
15 ............................... Bacterial, Cholera
14 ............................... Bacterial, Typhoid Fever
12-13 ........................... Microbial, Amoebic Dysentery
12-11 ........................... Viral, Rotavirus (minor disease)
9-10 ............................. Viral, Norovirus (minor disease)
7-8 .............................. Bacterial, E-Coli
5-6 .............................. Microbial, Giardia
3-4 .............................. Microbial, Cryptosporidium
1-2 .............................. Particulate Contamination ("Skunk Water")

Modifiers For Water Contamination:

Devastated Territory: +1
Refugee/Prison encampment: +1
Population 10K+: +2
Population 2K+: +1
20km of Impact Crater: +1
10km of Impact Crater: +2
5km of Impact Crater: +5
1km of Impact Crater: +10

Particulate Contamination:

The other effects are either "self-explanatory" or already explained in the basic rules. "Skunk Water" or "Swamp Water" is common with standing water in swamps or brackish coastal areas. It also occurs in arid regions. contamination of either Algae or other suspended medium that produce a strong smell or taste. While there is really nothing wrong with "skunk water," It can be hard to consume without issues. When consumed, the drinker must roll his CON or less on 1D10 or either gag or vomit the water back up. On a failure of 5 or more, the player suffers 1D3 days of Nausea and Diarrhea that results in a Light level of Fatigue.


I hope this Table will help produce more realistic results and enable filter users to determine if they can make a water source viable.

As always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.