Time in TWL 2000

[Cdnwolf]

With Daylight Savings Time starting today it got me thinking about what happened to the concept of time after the world went to hell.

Who would be responsible for the setting clocks or would we revert back to the days of everything happening around the rising and the falling of the sun? Would we even need clocks anymore?

Just wondering?

[pmulcahy11b]

I would think that at least for a while, the local time would still be followed, and to an extent, global time. The military would especially still try to keep with Zulu Time for as long as possible. Eventually, everything would probably fall back to a series of local times; however, what local clocks still functioned would still be used. Humans seem to have a species-wide need to keep track of time.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I would think that at least for a while, the local time would still be followed, and to an extent, global time. The military would especially still try to keep with Zulu Time for as long as possible.

Agreed. The official orders for Operation Omega printed in the Going Home module list all times in Zulu Time so we know MilGov forces at least were still using Zulu Time in late 2000.

[Legbreaker]

Anywhere there is military involvement, time will be very important.
Correct time is vital to almost every military operation - why else are watches synchronised during orders groups?
If the fire support element happens to cease firing a minute late, there is a very strong risk they'll be shooting up their own people. If they cease early, they allow the enemy the chance to catch their breath and prepare for the comming assault - possibly with equally devastating results.

The exact time might not be as important in small scale engagements as everyone simply being on the same page, but larger operations will require a common time over a wide area. This is why Zulu (aka Grenwich mean time) is used as the western standard, no matter where in the world you are.

[Cdnwolf]

I guess my real question is who is going to be the keeper of the official time? The worlds atomic clock was probably destroyed in one of the nuclear attacks and after batteries die in watches who is going to be the one to say what Zulu time really is?

Just curious.

http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I tend to think that keeping the world's official time will be incredibly low on anyone's list of priorities. People will revert to local time and sometime in the future when a stable social climate actually exists, then perhaps someone will propose keeping an official 'world clock' for everyone's benefit.

[Legbreaker]

As long as one person in HQ has a working watch, they'll be "the keeper"...
It might even become a mission to find a qualified Swizz watchmaker so all the pre-war battery operated units can be replaced, at least for officers anyway.

[Marc]

Bon dia!

Some thoughts.

For the most part of the population, the conception of time will have changed and working clocks, if available, will be used only as guide. Military units still tied into a larger organized structure could be one notable exception. In this last case, perhaps the most significant example would be crews on board ships.

For those lucky stable communities which are able to normally produce their needed food supply the situation will probably be like in the 18th or 19th century. Clocks will still be used as a good reference but the availability of sunlight will mark the rhythm of the day. The agricultural tasks will mark the rhythm of the year. If food is produced in enough quantity, the day could be divided in periods similar to our normal working day. Darkness will be synonym for danger.

For communities in a day to day struggle for their survival, the most part of the day will be used in a desperate search of food. Stomach will rule and nearly no stable and real divisions will exist in a normal day. There’s no space for a clock here…

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

I guess my real question is who is going to be the keeper of the official time? The worlds atomic clock was probably destroyed in one of the nuclear attacks and after batteries die in watches who is going to be the one to say what Zulu time really is?

Just curious.

At Greenwich you'd be able to use charts and tables and the time of sunrise and sunset to get a reasonably accurate fix on the time. I guess anyone within radio range of Greenwich would be able to syncronise their time over the radio?

[Legbreaker]

That could work....
The military would have need of accurate time keeping as previously mentioned. Fortunately they're also about the only ones with the technology remaining to actually make contact with Grenwich (if it's not a glowing hole in the ground).

It's probable that everyone else would refer to the nearest unit if they needed an accurate statement of the time (more than about x hours after dawn, etc).

[lombardoslegion]

One of my player's would always equip his character with a watch that required no batteries. It was powered by the motion of the wearer's arm.

[kato13]

If even one GPS satellite is available, time should be able to be calculated to an accuracy of 1/15th of a second.

[jimbo4795]

I haven't looked at a "Poor Richard's Almanac" in years, but if I recall they had charts that showed sunrise and sunset times for many locations in the US. For example: If you know that the town you are in is due North or due South of Nashville, you can use the Nashville times for sunrise/sunset and set your clocks accordingly.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

I guess my real question is who is going to be the keeper of the official time? The worlds atomic clock was probably destroyed in one of the nuclear attacks and after batteries die in watches who is going to be the one to say what Zulu time really is?

Just curious.

http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java

It will be approximated locally, and will probably vary from place to place depending upon timepieces and communications.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by kato13

If even one GPS satellite is available, time should be able to be calculated to an accuracy of 1/15th of a second.

Time yes, but location will be seriously wrong after 3+ years without updates (of course you tend to need more than one satellite anyway for a fix so it's probably a moot point).

I'm not sure of the details, but the GPS satellites all have to have their clocks updated at least once every 24 hours. Something to do with the way gravity distorts time (yes, you read that right). A clock aboard a GPS satellite tends to run about 7 microseconds slower than an identical clock on earth.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...Unit5/gps.html

[Marc]

Originally Posted by jimbo4795

I haven't looked at a "Poor Richard's Almanac" in years, but if I recall they had charts that showed sunrise and sunset times for many locations in the US. For example: If you know that the town you are in is due North or due South of Nashville, you can use the Nashville times for sunrise/sunset and set your clocks accordingly.

This makes me thing in the only reading my father-in-law practices in a normal year. The “Almanac del pagès�, more or less “The farmer’s Almanac�. Beyond the normal references to de duration of the day, festivities and markets, he follows the calendar of the almanac for his agricultural duties. When to plant this, when to prune that... Hmmm… it seems a valuable possession for a Twilight character...

[Cdnwolf]

Originally Posted by Marc

This makes me thing in the only reading my father-in-law practices in a normal year. The “Almanac del pagès�, more or less “The farmer’s Almanac�. Beyond the normal references to de duration of the day, festivities and markets, he follows the calendar of the almanac for his agricultural duties. When to plant this, when to prune that... Hmmm… it seems a valuable possession for a Twilight character...

Hmmm I just thought of a great mission for the characters... the seed vaults buried in arctic and manuals like the Farmers Almanac...

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

I guess my real question is who is going to be the keeper of the official time? The worlds atomic clock was probably destroyed in one of the nuclear attacks and after batteries die in watches who is going to be the one to say what Zulu time really is?

Just curious.

http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java

Well, you have various atomic clocks and other time system countries use. WWV is in Ft. Collins, Colorado and they broadcast their atomic clock signals on shortwave. You have WWVH in Hawaii doing the same thing. In Canada, you have their atomic clock on CHU in Ottawa. I know most European countries have time clocks as Russia and Red China. Australia has one and there are a couple in South America too, Columbia and Venezuela I think. Maybe South Africa too, I'm not sure. I guess the three candidates would be the South American and Australian ones although MilGov might get WWV going again. IIRC, WWVH is on the big island in Hawaii so that could escape damage too. Another problem is maintenance issues too, how easy is it to maintain atomic clocks. I know before atomic clocks were used, they used electronic quartz systems from the 1920's to now. Also you would need the astronomers to check accuracy too.

Chuck

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Time yes, but location will be seriously wrong after 3+ years without updates (of course you tend to need more than one satellite anyway for a fix so it's probably a moot point).

I'm not sure of the details, but the GPS satellites all have to have their clocks updated at least once every 24 hours. Something to do with the way gravity distorts time (yes, you read that right). A clock aboard a GPS satellite tends to run about 7 microseconds slower than an identical clock on earth.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...Unit5/gps.html

Sounds more like the compensation for Einstein's Theory of Relatively where the faster you go, the clock goes slower, remember those satellites go at 18,000 MPH as they orbit the Earth.

Chuck