Cadets

[perardua]

Decided to split this off into a new thread to see if it goes anywhere!

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Boy, that's hardcore -- having to go to Sandhurst on top of an officer training program...that's like going to West Point on top of going ROTC...

It's not quite as hardcore as that when you bear in mind that Sandhurst is a 44 week course (last I checked, anyway) rather than being an actual university like West Point. And it makes sense when you compare the structure of, say, an OTC/TA commissioning course with that of the regular one. A lot of stuff is cut down or missed out by neccessity due to the practicalities of fitting effective military training in between someone's civilian life. After all, there's only so much you can fit into weekends, Wednesday nights and a two week residential course at Sandhurst. Same goes for the other services.

Obviously, having had the reservist experience before joining full time is very beneficial, and I know of one individual who had gained a commission via the OTC at his university, then binned off going to OTC training and persuaded a local TA unit to let him act as one of their platoon commanders (TA are always short of officers at that rank). That gave him a lot more practical experience in leading troops than the OTC would have, as OTC cadets tend to rotate through various command positions in order to give all the potential officers a fair crack. Also, as he'd done the 2 week course at Sandhurst as part of his OTC commissioning, he already knew the place quite well when he finally got there for his regular commissioning.

I remember having a discussion a while ago on how the commissioning process differs between the US and UK. Basically, it seemed to be that in the US Army the commissioning process was more a means of preparing officers for their branch training, where the real military stuff happens, whilst in the UK the system seems closer to that of the USMC, with Sandhurst focusing entirely on preparing cadets for service as an officer capable of leading an infantry platoon (though not to the extent the Platoon Commander's Battle Course does). After all, only a small number of US Army officer cadets will pass through West Point, whilst Sandhurst trains every officer in the Army, whether Regular, TA or Late Entry.

The above also goes for the RAF and Navy. The Royal Marines are a bit weird, being the only service that does their officer training at the same location as the training of their enlisted personnel, and they effectively include the Platoon Commanders Battle Course as part of the training of all their officers.

[TiggerCCW UK]

So how many of us on here are ex cadets? I was a cadet for 7 years with the 1st Ulster Marine Cadets (TS Formidable), then an instructor with them for 6 months before moving to England where I was an instructor with 3 Coy (Para) Licolnshire ACF for a bit over a year. I then returned to Belfast and was an instructor with the ACF here, badged with the Royal Irish Rangers.

Sadly due to shift patterns in work and my duff knee (on crutches again at the minute - my daughter jumped on my bad knee while I was in bed, strained ligaments) I've had to give it up these days. Always struck me as very odd to see cadets out and about in uniform on the mainland. Due to the security situation over here we never travelled in uniform, and indeed tended to be very careful who we spoke to about the cadets - I think I'd been in four years before many people knew about it in school, and then they only found out because another lad in our class joined. I had a lot of great times and can't recommend it highly enough

As far as the parent services supporting the organisations, that is true for the ACF and ATC (not sure about the CCF), but the Sea Cadet Corps, of which the Marine Cadets are a part, are a registered charity, or certainly where when I was involved. For some reason the RN don't see the benefit of the SCC as a recruitment tool.....

[perardua]

I was in the CCF at school, RAF side of things, though due to low numbers and the fact that everyone wanted to do both the flying and the shooting we effectively amalgamated the two sides in terms of training and activities. It was pretty good really, we had loads of playing fields and woods on the school grounds for doing exercises on, and due to limited staff the cadet NCOs did most of the instructing (I ended up teaching the Army syllabus and my mate taught the RAF side). Got recruited by a RAuxAF Regiment Sqn at my last summer camp, one thing led to another and now I am lining up my next Afghan tour.

Didn't realise the RN don't support Sea Cadets, though it might explain why they have a lower profile compared to the other services.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

So how many of us on here are ex cadets?

Not me...had a couple of mates at school who were in the Army cadets, but never really got into it myself.

[Wereferret]

I did my four-year stint as a U.S. Coast Guard Academy 'cadet', also NJROTC waaaay back in high school.

[jester]

I did four years as an Air Cadet in the Civil Air Patrol which was/is considered an auxilary of the Air Force, did alot of training, and some real Search and Rescue operations. It was much better than any of the other scout organizations or the Sea Cadets or Young Marines since we got more time in the field, in the air and on the range.

[Adm.Lee]

Two years of US Army ROTC for me: the non-committed part of it. I was aiming for a commission, but the medical stuff undid me<-- teenaged asthma.

I was at a small school with a smaller ROTC contingent, we borrowed our instructors from a medium-sized state school about 30 miles away. That really cut down on our participation in exercises or anything outside the classroom.

There were, I think, a dozen at our school over the four years, when I was there, and maybe 50-60 between the main campus and the other 2 satellite programs.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

So how many of us on here are ex cadets

I was both JROTC and CAP in high school, and ROTC in college. It's a long story, but I was three weeks away from finishing ROTC, but never actually got commissioned. Since Third Region didn't want to believe I didn't actually have high blood pressure (at the time), they cut me and I enlisted a few weeks later when I got my degree.

[Wereferret]

Man that's too bad, did you eventually get the opportunity to go to OCS/OTS?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Wereferret

Man that's too bad, did you eventually get the opportunity to go to OCS/OTS?

I had several officers pushing me to go (including BG Granrud, later LTG Granrud, who was the ADC-M for 2ID at the time), but after I enlisted, I quickly learned by observation that I would not have been happy as an officer. They really do have to put up with and participate in a lot of politics. The careers of those officers who don't participate are usually short and miserable -- which really sucks, because they are generally the best officers.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I had several officers pushing me to go (including BG Granrud, later LTG Granrud, who was the ADC-M for 2ID at the time), but after I enlisted, I quickly learned by observation that I would not have been happy as an officer. They really do have to put up with and participate in a lot of politics. The careers of those officers who don't participate are usually short and miserable -- which really sucks, because they are generally the best officers.

Unless unlikely coinsident -that sounds like a small place in Norway..

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I quickly learned by observation that I would not have been happy as an officer. They really do have to put up with and participate in a lot of politics. The careers of those officers who don't participate are usually short and miserable -- which really sucks, because they are generally the best officers.

Sadly this is not limited to the Military...swap "Officer" with "Manager" and you've described a common workplace situation.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Sadly this is not limited to the Military...swap "Officer" with "Manager" and you've described a common workplace situation.

So true!!!! All gone a bi tits up with politics in work here

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Sadly this is not limited to the Military...swap "Officer" with "Manager" and you've described a common workplace situation.

Agree (my school).

[headquarters]

We have a "cadet" system here -only its not called that to spare any misunderstandings ( hehe and be a little mischiveous ) I will just say that translated it ends with "xxxxxxxx-youth") Its for 15-18 year olds .(Usually conscription starts at 19 for boys ,but nowadays they are professionalizing our peoples army up here ..sad..)

Anyways -did three years ,once every 14 weekdays and then again 4 - 6 weekends a year plus "voluntary" meets which were frequent -like a week long hike in the mountains etc .

All in all good fun,a lot of basic skills were taught,and we went to the range ,did day and night patrols and regular exercises etc .

I liked it so much that I went and joined up later on .

On to the comissioning process thats being discussed here.

Up here there is a different system -firstly you have to start at the bottom rung of the ladder .You apply to a NCO school or a NCO course and if you pass selection and education you do 6 months to 1 year service in the "parent unit" or sometimes another unit will take you.Your rank after this is seargent .Then you apply for what we call the "Academy".It is a two year school ,and each arm/ branch has one .If you pass selection and education you apply for posts in the whole military and go out and do the mandatory 4 years after whichtime you will be promoted captain if all goes well.To proceed through the ranks further requires a field comission or subsequent schooling at the Higher Staff Academy or civil educational institution.Many go abroad and to courses at other Scandinavian ,Nato or US staff schools etc .

All in all it takes app 4 years of schooling and practizing in the field to be an LT with your own platoon .

This is all just a rough run down and many variables could be mentioned -such as the fact that changes in the system has produced a few "side effects " such as 2nd LTs who have the same papers as 1st LTs due to organizational changes in the Academy etc .
I think the Academy (us NCOs used to call it the "riding&dancing school") is called "Norwegian Armed forces junior staff college", and then there is the "senior staff college" .

So - having come up through the ranks so to speak I feel a bit of each I was corporal and a squaddie for a year and an NCO and a squadleader for severeal more before they slapped additional "shoulder trinkets" on .A bit schizoid in that way -I believe trust and friendship is good regarding the lads ,but control and ruthlessness is better and as far as the brass goes I believe that any general or colonel worth his salt is mad as a hatter and the majors that follow him around are the worst sort for trying to implent the madness on the ranks below

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

So how many of us on here are ex cadets? I was a cadet for 7 years with the 1st Ulster Marine Cadets (TS Formidable), then an instructor with them for 6 months before moving to England where I was an instructor with 3 Coy (Para) Licolnshire ACF for a bit over a year. I then returned to Belfast and was an instructor with the ACF here, badged with the Royal Irish Rangers.

Sadly due to shift patterns in work and my duff knee (on crutches again at the minute - my daughter jumped on my bad knee while I was in bed, strained ligaments) I've had to give it up these days. Always struck me as very odd to see cadets out and about in uniform on the mainland. Due to the security situation over here we never travelled in uniform, and indeed tended to be very careful who we spoke to about the cadets - I think I'd been in four years before many people knew about it in school, and then they only found out because another lad in our class joined. I had a lot of great times and can't recommend it highly enough

As far as the parent services supporting the organisations, that is true for the ACF and ATC (not sure about the CCF), but the Sea Cadet Corps, of which the Marine Cadets are a part, are a registered charity, or certainly where when I was involved. For some reason the RN don't see the benefit of the SCC as a recruitment tool.....