DIY M231 Project at AR-15.com

[HorseSoldier]

AR-15.com has a huge thread about a guy's efforts to make a semi-auto, firing replica of an M231 firing port weapon. Not sure if it's been posted before, but it's way more information than anyone probably ever wanted on the M231.

[Targan]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting it!

[jester]

Although I have never been a fan of that system. That pic is changing my mind. That is kinda badass! Now I am turn on what to make my next AR, an A1, A4 or something like that. Ah ta heck with it, I'll got ffor the .308 variant

[HorseSoldier]

I've always wanted to do an M16A1 build set up, including paint, like the ones used by the Selous Scouts and Rhodesian SAS late in the Bush War but have never been into it enough to start spending money on the project (though I do have a lower receiver ready to go if I ever get around to it).

[Ironside]

Does anyone know when the M251 programme was brought to an end? Does it exist in the V.1 timeline?

[waiting4something]

I can't believe how much faster the rate of fire is on the M231. This would be a bad ass build to do. That's one thing that is cool about M16's and AK's is there are so many different types to select from. If you selected this build it's almost a sure bet your gonna be the only guy in your town that has one.

[HorseSoldier]

I can't believe how much faster the rate of fire is on the M231.

Yeah, besides the lack of sights on the weapon, the muzzle rise must be a pretty huge problem for running the thing. I could see units that were formally issuing them might try knocking together some sort of muzzle brakes for them (as well as a front sight of some sort).

[Raellus]

They're full auto only, correct? No semi-auto setting? I can see ammo wastage being a big problem after the TDM. Not sure if/how they would be employed after that.

[HorseSoldier]

Full auto only from an open bolt, so even if you fitted sights or an optic, accuracy wouldn't ever be super.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Raellus

They're full auto only, correct? No semi-auto setting? I can see ammo wastage being a big problem after the TDM. Not sure if/how they would be employed after that.

After that, any firearm might be better than normal. Even with the high cyclic rate, you could probably squeeze off five-round bursts with practice. The big problem is that they aren't designed for use with SS-109 ammo (they use the primarily tracers, with the older M-193(?) as a backup) -- limits ammo availability.

[HorseSoldier]

Good point, though with the accuracy the 231 would probably be bringing to the table the "100 meters and in, wartime emergency only" guidance for 62 grain ammo through 1-12 twist barrels like the 231 and M16A1 wouldn't mean missing out on much.

[waiting4something]

I would love to make one of these, but after researching it, it looks like the parts are a bitch to find. It's one of those projects that would take you forever to piece together. Plus, I'm no gun smith. Now, if they made complete parts kits I would be all over this.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by Ironside

Does anyone know when the M251 programme was brought to an end? Does it exist in the V.1 timeline?

As far as I can tell the M231 is still in use in the U.S. Army. I wasn't in the Army and was never around a Bradley so I can't say for sure. It came into play in 1979, so yeah it would exist in the V.1 timeline. Of course V.1 has the US military using a lot of stuff it never did like the Spas-12's and Viking Smg's.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I wasn't in the Army and was never around a Bradley so I can say for sure.

Unfortunately I'll be able to tell you sometime in the next few weeks. I start Mechanized Leader's Course on Monday.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Unfortunately I'll be able to tell you sometime in the next few weeks. I start Mechanized Leader's Course on Monday.

woah, going from light/strykers to mech? have fun

(former mech cavalry)

back on topic, I was a 19D, assigned as a gunner on an M2A2 (not-so-long story, I'll tell it sometime), and we didn't even have the M231's in the armory (I've never laid eyes on one), but we were in a very unique situation.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

woah, going from light/strykers to mech? have fun

Yeah, I asked for Ft. Benning or Ft. Stewart so I could stay close to home on my next assignment. Unfortunately, that mandates a 4 out of 5 Heavy Brigade chance. Plus, it's the only thing in the Infantry I haven't really done, so...

I know that when we did our little walkthrough as part of the Captain's Career Course, they mentioned the firing ports, but they didn't say anything about the M231s or not. At the time, I didn't have the interest to ask.

[HorseSoldier]

I think the infantry Brads still have the FPWs in the rear ramp, but may be wrong these days (been a long time since I was around mech infantry). The side firing ports were plated over on pretty much all marks after the A-Zeroes.

[Raellus]

From that fairly recent photo of the crewman in Iraq, is it possible that the M231s are standard/semi-official issue personal defense weapons for some Brad crews? Maybe just the older ones that used to have the firing ports before they were uparmored? Back in the '70s and '80s, U.S. AFV crewmen used to be issued M3 Grease Guns. The M231 would be somewhat of a step up, IMO.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

I think the infantry Brads still have the FPWs in the rear ramp, but may be wrong these days (been a long time since I was around mech infantry). The side firing ports were plated over on pretty much all marks after the A-Zeroes.

This is true. My M2A2 didn't have the side ports (additional armor instead), but had the ports on the back ramp.

Eddie - Sounds good. I loved Mech. I still have an attachment to my Bradley that hasn't faded over 18 years I will say, however, that going from an M2A2 on Active Duty to an M901A1 in the NG was...well, the suck.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

Eddie - Sounds good. I loved Mech. I still have an attachment to my Bradley that hasn't faded over 18 years I will say, however, that going from an M2A2 on Active Duty to an M901A1 in the NG was...well, the suck.

I kind of fell into being a Bradley crewman. I was a mortar gunner at the time by MOS, but after recovering from an ankle injury that nearly ended my career before it began, my mortar gunner slot was gone. So I became line doggie. I still much preferred to be the airborne infantryman I became later, but it set up circumstances that led me to 2X G3 in Korea, which was definitely an assignment that was worth it (even if it was a REMF assignment).

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by Raellus

From that fairly recent photo of the crewman in Iraq, is it possible that the M231s are standard/semi-official issue personal defense weapons for some Brad crews? Maybe just the older ones that used to have the firing ports before they were uparmored? Back in the '70s and '80s, U.S. AFV crewmen used to be issued M3 Grease Guns. The M231 would be somewhat of a step up, IMO.

My fathers NG tanker unit in the 1990's still had M3A1 grease guns. Along with M1911A1 pistols, Winchester 1200 trench guns and M16a1's. A couple years ago my brother in law was a commander for a supply unit that that was now at where my father's old tank unit was, and he told me they still had the trench guns and M16A1's. I have to ask him if they still had the grease guns. So even if the regular army might not have the M231's a NG unit might.

[pmulcahy11b]

We had the grease guns at my national guard unit, but they were never issued out. Nonetheless, we broke them out a couple of times to shoot them -- I actually got a Submachinegun Sharpshooter's Badge. Those suckers really rattle when they shoot.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

Eddie - Sounds good. I loved Mech. I still have an attachment to my Bradley that hasn't faded over 18 years I will say, however, that going from an M2A2 on Active Duty to an M901A1 in the NG was...well, the suck.

Enhhh...I'm too in love with the Stryker. Granted, the brigade I'm going to is rolling in A3s, which have almost all of the same digital capabilities as a Stryker, but they're still louder and slower. I grew up in Ranger Regiment when I was enlisted, so I've got that bias against them as well, but from an officer viewpoint, the challenges that a Mech Company Commander has versus a Light Company Commander are much greater. I like the greater challenge. So, I'm going in with as open a mind as an old 11B can (old as when they had 11Ms to do the mech stuff).

But this is getting a little too far OT, most likely.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Eddie

But this is getting a little too far OT, most likely.

Not really. I've never had any experience in armor, I was a RMF with the Air Wing then an Infanty Battalion, I like learning about things I've never experienced.

As an aside, there's a company that is marketing cheap 1/72 scale armor, can't remember the name but I picked up a Stryker at Target a few weeks ago for less than $5.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Eddie

But this is getting a little too far OT, most likely.

That's how the best threads start!