Panama Canal

[kalos72]

So as I read through the details of the canal and its operation, it seems to me that it could very well be functional for some time after the nukes dropped...

Anyone have any feelings on that?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by kalos72

So as I read through the details of the canal and its operation, it seems to me that it could very well be functional for some time after the nukes dropped...

Anyone have any feelings on that?

I think the Russians wouldn't have wasted a nuke on it. It's too small and too slow in operation to be of use to most naval traffic. For most purposes, it's irrelevant.

[kalos72]

It would be in a pre war scenario with the size of the naval vessels being deployed. But after the drop, much smaller ships would be used and the size of the canal would be no problem at all.

I am thinking about its use in say an east/west coast trade or even a way to support the California/Alaska troops still involved in combat.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by kalos72

It would be in a pre war scenario with the size of the naval vessels being deployed. But after the drop, much smaller ships would be used and the size of the canal would be no problem at all.

It would be useful in a T2K world, once you get the antiquated locks working again. They've already, in our world, have deteriorated and need constant maintenance. But what I mean is in a World War III scenario, as a target, they're not worth using a nuke on -- much less mounting an actual assault to capture them.

There are two countries who might think they're worth an attack: Mexico (doubtful if they have the forces to mount an attack) and Cuba (ditto). The Mexicans might be useful to their much smaller naval vessels and to resupply troops in California and the Southwest US. But by the time of the Mexican attack, anyone capturing the canal might find themselves in an uphill task to repair and maintain a neglected Panama Canal.

Another possible reason for an attack on the Canal Zone would be to tie down US troops there. The US might find the Canal Zone useful as a base to launch attacks on Mexico against their underbelly. But the canal itself, I think, would not be a worthwhile target to bother putting out of action or maintaining, at least during the actual war.

And for all we know, Columbia might try to take back Panama. Theodore Roosevelt basically stole Panama from the Colombians to build the Panama Canal.

[Adm.Lee]

I think by the time anyone got the idea to go for taking it, the US would have given up any idea of holding it, and the defensive forces would have been long gone. Just my $0.02.

[Targan]

In my campaign the US abandoned the canal zone some time after the nukes started falling (I can't remember the date offhand but it was during 1998 or early 99) and no shipping passed through the canal for a while because the Soviets let it be known that they had seeded the canal itself and/or its approaches with nuclear mines.

By 2000 the French had taken control of the canal zone and had sent mine clearing crews through it. The French never made it public as to whether the Soviets had been bluffing about the nuke mines.

Some months after the regular US military had withdrawn from Panama a rag-tag group of US and allied spec ops and intel personnel (who came to be known colloquially as "Team Panama") conducted their own exfiltration of Panama and got back to the States partly by land and partly by sea. They had withdrawn to Panama from surrounding areas but had missed the main withdrawal of US forces (which had turned into a bit of a rout at the end, much like the last days of the US presence in South Vietnam in 1975). I've talked about Team Panama in the recent Special Forces thread.

[rcaf_777]

I think the russians would likey try and conventional destroy the canal since alot of war material travels through it, IE ammo, rations ect via container ships. In the the book Red Strom Rising, Tom Clancy writes about the North Korea attemping to block the canal at both ends sending ships into the canal and blowing them up at the frist set of locks. I figure the plan would call for four merchant ships, two rigged to blow up, one for each side of canal, the other two ships would outfitted for mine laying at ethier entrance. This plan might carried on earlier in Twlight given that the west is supplying China.

[dragoon500ly]

That's one way of blasting the canal. But all it would really take is a single containership loaded with about 10,000lbs of explosives, or perhaps a couple of tac nukes or maybe a LNG carrier. All you would need to do is damage one set of locks.

[kalos72]

From a defensive standpoint I think the US would like to keep the canal open for as long as they can and keep control over it as well.

Wasnt there a US unit in Colombia as well as Panama in the 90's? Anyone have any stats on either of them by chance?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Wasnt there a US unit in Colombia as well as Panama in the 90's? Anyone have any stats on either of them by chance?

There were a small amount of SF advisors for the Columbian Army and...ahem...some unofficial units working on the anti-drug efforts.

[kalos72]

A T2k Prewar Orbat I found online someplace lists the 196th IB in Puerto Rico, the 195th IB in Bogota and the 193rd IB in Panama under the 23rd ID / SouthCom HQ. Not sure if thats a personal campaign Orbat or something official, sort of.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by kalos72

A T2k Prewar Orbat I found online someplace lists the 196th IB in Puerto Rico, the 195th IB in Bogota and the 193rd IB in Panama under the 23rd ID / SouthCom HQ. Not sure if thats a personal campaign Orbat or something official, sort of.

The 193rd was in Panama 1962-1994; I don't think the Cold War US Army had a 195th brigade at all. The 196th was pretty much a Vietnam-era-only formation, in the Americal/23rd Division of that war. (Ditto the 198th)