Battlefield Management Systems

[pmulcahy11b]

I was musing on BMSs when I was doing French Wheeled APCs last night, and I thought, "This could be a real security risk if a vehicle is captured or not damaged enough to knock out the system, but kill the crew." I haven't been able to find out if a BMS can be erased remotely like a SINGCARS radio can, but even if it can, there could still be an opening there between the discovery that a unit has been knocked out but the BMS is still operating and the erasure of the BMS. Any opinions?

For an example BMS:

http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsSe...nsyte_bms.html

More and more vehicles are being equipped with this type of system these days.

[dragoon500ly]

I'm afraid i predate the widespread issue of BMS, but i was around for some of the early development and there was both a "zero" button to wipe critical info as well as a means to remote zero. The remote zero was the source of a lot of problems but the risk of a working BMS being accessed by the enemy would, no doubt, have led to the problems being fixed.

[rcaf_777]

When I was going through training on some the more specialized radio equipment, I was told not to remove the purple key as it emergency zero device and made radio useless

[pmulcahy11b]

That's what I figured, it would be something like remotely disabling a SINCGARS radio; I just wasn't sure.

[Dog 6]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

That's what I figured, it would be something like remotely disabling a SINCGARS radio; I just wasn't sure.

Good thing 2.......

[HorseSoldier]

It's a risk, but could potentially be an opportunity as well. What if you could identify a compromised system/computer and start feeding it bad information? The new owner would be torn between wanting to use the intel provided and the risk that it was setting him up for ambushes, artillery/CAS kill zones, etc.

[Eddie]

Additionally, the time that the information is useful is also in a limited window. BFTs/FBCB2s are still classified as SECRET the last time that I checked, so I won't say what the window is, but we have to do similar to radios and get periodic updates to the security encryption/data in the system to remain networked.

If you go outside of that window, then one of two things happens based solely on your particular system: either all of the data freezes in place and no one seems to be doing anything, or everyone other than you disappears and it essentially becomes a visual locator for your DAGR/PLGR.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Eddie

BFTs/FBCB2s
DAGR/PLGR.

I've said it once before but I'm going to say it again - We definitely need a glossary for this site, not all of us know current US military jargon and that detracts from the message significantly sometimes.

[Eddie]

BFT = Blue Force Tracker
FBCB2 = Force XXI Battle Command Brigade and Below
DAGR = Defense Advanced GPS Receiver
PLGR = Precision Lightweight GPS Receiver

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Eddie

BFT = Blue Force Tracker
FBCB2 = Force XXI Battle Command Brigade and Below
DAGR = Defense Advanced GPS Receiver
PLGR = Precision Lightweight GPS Receiver

Eddie,

Still doesn't help much, thanks for trying!

Tony

[Eddie]

Blue Force Tracker:



FBCB2:



DAGR:



PLGR:

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Eddie, thank you for your very prompt explanations and more so the additional information in the form of the images.
every occupation seems to have it's jargon but it confuses the hell out of me at times when the same occupations but from different nations have completely different terms, acronyms and what-have-you

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Eddie, thank you for your very prompt explanations and more so the additional information in the form of the images.
every occupation seems to have it's jargon but it confuses the hell out of me at times when the same occupations but from different nations have completely different terms, acronyms and what-have-you

I think what Eddie meant to say is:

1) Blue Force Tracker is a computer program (among other things) that ties with GPS.

2) FBCB2 is communications system that includes a laptop so you can blog on the battlefield.

3) DAGR is a hand-held GPS.

4) PLGR is another hand-held GPS.

The pictures are great! Next time I'm looking for bargain electronics in a Kabul marketplace I'll know what to look for.

Tony

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by helbent4

I think what Eddie meant to say is:

1) Blue Force Tracker is a computer program (among other things) that ties with GPS.

2) FBCB2 is communications system that includes a laptop so you can blog on the battlefield.

Kind of. Both have the keyboard, monitor and CPU, as well as the software and GPS ties for battlefield reporting. The differences come in the capabilities and the "how does it.."s of the two systems. Unfortunately, that's where the green UNCLASSIFIED banner turns into the red SECRET banner. That said, Google will readily provide you with an abundant set of sites that will cross that line and tell you more.

FBCB2 is the newer of the two and as such, you can assume it's more robust in hardware capabilities. It was fielded either with the first Stryker Brigade or just before it. BFT on the other hand came out a couple years before FBCB2, I think. It was during my break-in-service where I finished my degree so I could make the transition to the Dark Side so the details might be a little washy.

Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, there is no possibility of WWW access through either system. That's where the Harris AN/PRC-117 comes in, though.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, there is no possibility of WWW access through either system. That's where the Harris AN/PRC-117 comes in, though.

Eddie,

No battle-tweets!

The preceding explanation makes more sense. Explaining recent military acronyms with technical jargon further clarified by pictures of gear I've never seen probably did not get the point across as efficiently as you hoped! I do appreciate there's a limit to what you can provide in terms of privileged information but indeed Google (and sites like FAS.org and Wikipedia) helps to fill in the blanks.

To summarise then (and bing it back to the original point) for modern US systems if some sort of verification or authentication is missed then the system (depending on which one it is) will either effectively shut itself down or be reduced to limited functionality. Basically, it becomes sort of like a glorified map locator tied into your hand-held GPS.

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

This is knd of dated, but its still viable!!!!

SNAFU: Situation Normal, All Fucked Up!

SUSFU: Situation Unchanged, Still Fucked Up!

SAFU: Self Adjusting Fuck Up!

TARFU: Things Are Really Fucked Up!

FUMTU: Fucked Up More Than Usual!

JANFU: Joint Army-Navy Fuck Up!

JAAFU: Joint Anglo-American Fuck Up!

FUAFUP: Fucked Up And Fucked Up Proper!

FUBAR: Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition!

[Eddie]

To continue the picture book descriptions, here is a Humvee setup for BFT/FBCB2:



There is no real way to tell the two apart visually like this, but in a Twilight setting, without hand-waving by the GM, it'd almost undoubtedly be a BFT. Numbers would be minimal at that and although supposedly hardened, their utility would be severely limited at best.

I haven't been able to find out if a BMS can be erased remotely like a SINGCARS radio can, but even if it can, there could still be an opening there between the discovery that a unit has been knocked out but the BMS is still operating and the erasure of the BMS. Any opinions?

Paul, to expand on this, the screenshot below shows five boxes on the bottom left-hand corner of the screen. Those boxes, while able to be manipulated manually, automatically report to the network statuses as well. In a perfect world, a battle captain/nco and his RTOs should be monitoring the FBCB2 screen for their AO showing their subordinate units. Anytime one goes black, it means they're dead obviously and the battlestaff can take appropriate actions. Bear in mind, I did say "in a perfect world."

[LBraden]

Actually, that is kinda close to what I was going to make my own version of TMP's "Auto-Nav" like for my version, but nice, and very handy topic guys.