Fiddle's Green

[dragoon500ly]

Halfway down the trail to hell
In a shady meadow green,
Are the souls of all dead troopers camped
Near a good old-time canteen
And this eternal resting place
Is known as Fiddler's Green!

Marching past, straight through to hell,
The infantry are seen, '
Accompanied by the Engineers,
Artillery and Marine,
For none but the shades of Cavalrymen
Dismount at Flddlers' Green!

Though some go curving down the trail
To seek a warmer scene,
No trooper ever gets to Hell
Ere he's emptied his canteen,
And so rides back to drink agaln
With friends at Fiddlers' Green!

And so when man and horse go down
Beneath a saber keen,
Or in a roaring charge or fierce melee
You stop a bullet clean,
And the hostiles come to get your scalp,
Just empty your canteen,
And put your pistol to your head
And go to Fiddlers' Green!


This thread is based on an idea from Panther Al. Both of us being members of the proud brotherhood of the armored cavalry, here is a thread where the Dragoons of the 2ACR and the Riflemen of the 3ACR can snipe at each other as well as the members of the other regiments of Uncle Sam's Finest....The U.S. Cavalry!!!

[Panther Al]

And even those that served in other countries cav units are welcome here.

And yep, the second drops it again: Fiddle's green?!?

[dragoon500ly]

Sorry, thought I was a member of the Black Horse!

Actually, my 3-year old decided to bounce a ball off the keyboard...

So I can blame the third!!!!

[Panther Al]

So anyway, what's your take on the this whole Stryker thing? I've read that the third is going to get reissued with the things in 2012. Not so sure that's a very good idea in my opinion.

[dragoon500ly]

Reequipping the 3rd....well that will be the last of the ACRs. And I don't feel that it is a very good idea. Its the continual loss of our heavy firepower in favor of Strykers. They are not even trying to keep alive the ideal of a balanced force...

How about that Stryker, now there is no need for heavy armor because the Stryker can do everything....

But ya know...I somehow think that when a Stryker goes up against a T-72....the T-72 will win.

[dragoon500ly]

So just what is a ACR?

The armored cavalry regiment is a corps level asset that has several missions.

First up is the reconnaissance-in-force mission, its light enough to move fast and heavy enought to punch through just about anything in its way.

Second is the screening mission, the ACR can cover the corps front or one of its flanks. The size of an ACR and its equipment mix can also be used in a deception mission, impersonating a mech brigade for example.

During my time in service, there were two TO&Es used. The older TO&E used a ten vehicle platoon (the largest platoon in the Army) made up a scout section equipped with 4 M-113 APCs carrying a Dragon mount, a tank section with 4 M-1IPs and a command section consisting of a M-113 and a M-106 4.2-inch mortar carrier. The mortar carrier was often detached to the troop headquarters, giving the troop 3 mortar carriers. Three cav platoons and a HQ platoon make up a armored cavalry troop.

A armored cavalry squadron is made up of a headquarters troop, three cavalry troops, a tank company (14 M-1IPs) and a howitzer battery (8 SP 155mm). The regiment itself has three armored cavalry squadrons, a air cavalry squadron, a headquarters troop and attached Stinger platoon, target acquisition platoon (OH-58D) a engineer company and a military intelligence company. As you can see, a powerful combined arms organization capable of performing a variety of missions.

The ACRs do not use the standard phonetic alphabet names, but use a more evocative series:

First Squadron
Apache Troop
Bull Troop
Charlie Troop
Delta Company
How Battery
Second Squadron
Eagle Troop
Fox Troop
Ghost Troop
Hawk Company
How Battery
Third Squadron
Iron Troop
Killer Troop
Lightning Troop
Mad Dog Company
How Battery
Fourth Squadron
Nomad Troop (8 OH-58C and 4 AH-1F)
Oscar Troop (ditto)
Palehorse Troop (ditto)
Quickstrike Troop (4 OH-58C and 8 AH-1F)
Redcatcher Troop (ditto)
Sierra Company (12 UH-60A)

[dragoon500ly]

The 1991 Persian Gulf War/Desert Storm is perhaps the best example of how ACRs are used.

Both the 2nd and the 3rd ACRs took part.

2nd ACR was part of the VII Corps drive. It performed the corps-level screening mission. The Dragoons led the assault into Iraqi and proceeded to tear apart the Iraqi forces. To enhance the 2nd ACRs drive, the 210th Field Artillery Brigade (consisting of 2 bns of SP155mm, a attack helicopter squadron and a MLRS battery) was attached.

3rd ACR was attached to the 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized) and was used as a fourth maneuver brigade during the drive of the XVIII Airborne Corps.

[Panther Al]

These days its:

B=Bandit
G=Grim
H=Heavy
I=Ironhorse
Regiment is Remington and the supply guys are know as the Muleskinners.

At least in the 3d ACR.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Reequipping the 3rd....well that will be the last of the ACRs. And I don't feel that it is a very good idea. Its the continual loss of our heavy firepower in favor of Strykers. They are not even trying to keep alive the ideal of a balanced force...

How about that Stryker, now there is no need for heavy armor because the Stryker can do everything....

But ya know...I somehow think that when a Stryker goes up against a T-72....the T-72 will win.

I have nothing against the concept of one chassis providing the base for a number of specialised vehicles, its an even better idea for the ACR's as they need to run on as small as possible logistical tail. My problem with it is that they made far far to complex for what was needed. The original base vehicle, the piranha is great: mechanically and electrically simple that can be maintained with great ease: they stryker on the other hand... Hell the Centaro armoured cars we loaned from italy are easier to maintain.

[Abbott Shaull]

Unless you using M1 or Challenger or similar AFV for scouting mission, I think the T-72 will stand a good chance of winning. That is as long as it not a lone T-72 or all the commanders are day dreaming at the same time...

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

I have nothing against the concept of one chassis providing the base for a number of specialised vehicles, its an even better idea for the ACR's as they need to run on as small as possible logistical tail. My problem with it is that they made far far to complex for what was needed. The original base vehicle, the piranha is great: mechanically and electrically simple that can be maintained with great ease: they stryker on the other hand... Hell the Centaro armoured cars we loaned from italy are easier to maintain.

And that's the problem with the Stryker, all the nifty gadgets packed into...everything from that remote-controlled weapon station to the electronics. The more "techie" things are, the greater the likely hood that gremlins while strike whenever you need it the most.

Its like when the pluggers first came into service...the first thing was to no longer teach basic map reading/compass work...so when the pluggers crashed.......the old sarges had to pull out thier compasses and the paper maps and start teaching the old skills, yet again.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Unless you using M1 or Challenger or similar AFV for scouting mission, I think the T-72 will stand a good chance of winning. That is as long as it not a lone T-72 or all the commanders are day dreaming at the same time...

Thats why, after Desert Storm, the divisional recon squadrons started adding tank sections to the ground troops...

[dragoon500ly]

In the mid to late 80s, the armd cav platoon replaced two M113 Dragon tracks with two M-901 Improved Tow Vehicles...not exactly the best choice for the recon mission!

Towards the end of the eighties, with the first deployment of the M3 Devers CFV, the ACRs started a major reorganization of the platoons.

First tested in the 1986 REFORGER, the structure was 1st & 2nd Platoons, using a command M113, 3 M-901s and 3 M113 Dragons apeice (splitting the Third Herds scout section) and giving up their tank sections to 3rd Platoon...12 M-1s!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Towards the end of the eighties, with the first deployment of the M3 Devers CFV, the ACRs started a major reorganization of the platoons.

I might point out that the initial plans were dropped and they never called the M3 the Devers.

[Panther Al]

True, but that (at least according to the cav) was because the infantry branch got all pissy that someone might get something special, after all, the infantry is the only bunch that gets promotion points for proving they know how to do their job...

But in all seriousness, yes, the M3 was called the Bradley, but to a lot of cavalry men its still the Devers- at least to the old timers- the new crop over the past 10 years hasn't heard about its old name..

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

True, but that (at least according to the cav) was because the infantry branch got all pissy that someone might get something special, after all, the infantry is the only bunch that gets promotion points for proving they know how to do their job...

But in all seriousness, yes, the M3 was called the Bradley, but to a lot of cavalry men its still the Devers- at least to the old timers- the new crop over the past 10 years hasn't heard about its old name..

It was Devers when I left the service...so shoot me (wait, that's been done)!!!

Besides...infantry officers tended to tear up and throw hissy fits when cav was attached to their units...it was that cocky, know-it-all atitude that comes with the knowledge that in a real fight, with armored cavalry...infantry was just another name for "track lubricant"!!!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Besides...infantry officers tended to tear up and throw hissy fits when cav was attached to their units...it was that cocky, know-it-all atitude that comes with the knowledge that in a real fight, with armored cavalry...infantry was just another name for "track lubricant"!!!

Hey, I resent that remark, and I'm Dragon-qualified...

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Hey, I resent that remark, and I'm Dragon-qualified...

LOL...I never present my backside to a Dragon!

Besides, haven't you ever wondered why infantry are called "crunchies" by tankers?

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

LOL...I never present my backside to a Dragon!

Besides, haven't you ever wondered why infantry are called "crunchies" by tankers?

Yeah, well I would be afraid of friendly fire too!

No I wouldn't want be an Infantryman assigned to anything closely resembling an Armor unit for said reasons. They have very limited field of vision, the again so do Dragoon gunner who are only looking through their sights. So yeah I can understand them not wanted to expose their back side to some rocket troop looking through an only noticing that they tanks are 'leaving' the engagement area...lol

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

In the mid to late 80s, the armd cav platoon replaced two M113 Dragon tracks with two M-901 Improved Tow Vehicles...not exactly the best choice for the recon mission!

Towards the end of the eighties, with the first deployment of the M3 Devers CFV, the ACRs started a major reorganization of the platoons.

First tested in the 1986 REFORGER, the structure was 1st & 2nd Platoons, using a command M113, 3 M-901s and 3 M113 Dragons apeice (splitting the Third Herds scout section) and giving up their tank sections to 3rd Platoon...12 M-1s!

3rd platoon would have 12 M1s....WOW the platoon would have as much firepower minus the HQ section of a regular Armor Company...lol

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Hey, I resent that remark, and I'm Dragon-qualified...

Hrm.... The Dragon. You mean that missile that had a minimum range closer to its max than not, the one that had a "slight" problem with CATO issues, that would sometime fly right into the ground, and the one that when the russians copied it, significantly improved on it to the point that the pip was a copy of the russian redesign?

Now if you said TOW on the otherhand....

[Abbott Shaull]

Paul no matter what we may say. I have the feeling we will be wrong because we could jump out of perfectly flying Air Farce plane with one...lol

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Paul no matter what we may say. I have the feeling we will be wrong because we could jump out of perfectly flying Air Farce plane with one...lol

How many times do I have to say that I don't know those planes are perfectly good because they're Air Force planes?!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Hrm.... The Dragon. You mean that missile that had a minimum range closer to its max than not, the one that had a "slight" problem with CATO issues, that would sometime fly right into the ground, and the one that when the russians copied it, significantly improved on it to the point that the pip was a copy of the russian redesign?

Now if you said TOW on the otherhand....

The point being that I could pop your fancy Cav vehicle in the patoot... And the minimum range is only 60 meters. And grounding your missile is a rookie mistake.

And yes, I did botch my only combat shot with a Dragon, hitting the BMP-1 near one of the front roadwheels...

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

How many times do I have to say that I don't know those planes are perfectly good because they're Air Force planes?!

Yeah I know what you mean there is no such thing as perfect Air Force plane. They were piloted by the best pilots put through the best training known in the f'Free' world... So damn right I wanted to be qualified to deplane in hurry...lol

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

How many times do I have to say that I don't know those planes are perfectly good because they're Air Force planes?!

Now that is a very good point: at least with the sh!thook you know if its leaking its fine, when it stops it must be out of fluids.

(And by the way, don't ask the crew to see the leeks before you get on, they don't find it very funny. )

[Abbott Shaull]

I don't understand why not...lol Just keep an eye where the crew chief is looking at...lol

[bobcat]

and again i am reminded how much of an oxymoron i am.
the dismounted rider(AKA light cavalry)

gimmie a radio, my M4 and a division of hostle armor(or as us light guys call them targets)

[Dog 6]

lol @ the crunchies

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

3rd platoon would have 12 M1s....WOW the platoon would have as much firepower minus the HQ section of a regular Armor Company...lol

Tell me about it! To the best of my knowledge, it was only pulled on that one REFORGER with mixed results (gee wonder why). That's why the next move in the troop was to go to four line platoons, two with 6 M3 each and two with 4 M1A1s apiece. This is the configuration that went into Desert Storm.