Troop List

[dragoon500ly]

Talking about all of the various units that go into a Corps reminded me that I have a copy of a "doctrine" listing. This is the US Army Command & General Staff College Reference Book 101-1. This uses the Division 86 TO&E, but it is useful for showing all of the "tail" that supports the "teeth". Needless to say, these are are not real units, the names have been changed to protect the innocent!

I Corps Troop List

HQ & HQ Company, Corps.
HHC, COSCOM
HHC 10th Spt Grp
HHC 11th Spt Grp
2175th Spt Cen, Rr Area Op
2176th Spt Cen, Rr Area Op
2421st DPU (COSCOM)
2001st MMC Co (COSCOM)
4104th Trans MMC (COSCOM)
25th Armored Division
21st Infantry Division [optional]
52nd Infantry Division (Mechanized)
54th Infantry Division (Mechanized)
312th Armored Brigade
201st Armored Cavalry Regiment
207th Air Cavalry Combay Brigade
1-215 Cav Sqn (Air)
120th Attack Helicopter Bn

COMBAT SUPPORT UNITS
HHB, I Corps Arty
Btry A, 191st FA (target acquisition)
HHB, 61st FA Group
1-651 FA [155mm towed]
1-652 FA [155mm towed]
2-606 FA [203mm SP]
2-607 FA [2-3mm SP]
HHB, 62nd FA Grp
2-631 FA [155mm SP]
2-632 FA [155mm SP]
2-608 FA [203mm SP]
2-661 FA [203mm SP]
HHB, 63rd FA Grp
2-633 FA [155mm SP]
2-634 FA [155mm SP]
2-609 FA [203mm SP]
2-662 FA [MLRS]
HHB, 64th FA Grp
2-663 FA [203mm SP]
2-664 FA [203mm SP]
1-205 FA [Lance]
1-305 FA [Lance]

AIR DEFENSE ARTILLERY
HHB, 401st ADA Brigade
1-430 ADA [Chap/Vulc]
1-431 ADA [Chap/Vulc]
2-461 ADA [IHAWK]
2-462 ADA [IHAWK]
1-451 ADA [Patriot]

AVIATION
HHC 102nd Avn Grp
133rd Avn Co (Corps)
296th MI Co (Aerial Survl)
151st Avn ATC Unit
173rd Hv Hel Co
121st Attack Hel Bn
110th Combat Aviation Bn
111 Combat Aviation Bn
130th Medium Helicopter Bn

CHEMICAL
333rd-337th Cml Det (NBCE)
356th-359th Cml Det (NBC Agt Sampling & Analy)
400th-405th Cml Det (Cbt Spt)
460th-466th Cml Det (Decon)
450th-456th Cml Det (Decon)

ENGINEER
HHC 51st Engineer Combat Brigade
HHC 61st-62nd Engineer Combat Groups
500th-511th Engineer Combat Bn (Corps)
550th-551st Eng Cbt Bn (Hvy)
5000th Eng Topo Co (Corps)
5006th-5007th Eng Dump Truck Co
5035th-5036th Eng Pnl Bridge Co
5045th Eng Asslt Bridge Co
5076th Eng Mdm Girder Bridge Co
5080th-5081st Eng Cbt Spt Eq Co
5115th Eng Co (ADM)
5665th Eng Det (Water Purification)

COMBAT ELECTRONIC WARFARE INTELLIGENCE
200th Aerial Xlt Bn
210th Tax Xplt Bn
220th EW Bn

MILITARY POLICE
230th MP Bn

PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS
200th PSYOP Bn
283rd PSYOP Tac Bn

SIGNAL
HHC, 20th Signal Brigade
700th Signal Bn (Corps)
712th Signal Bn
704th Area Signal Bn

RESTRUCTURED GENERAL SUPPORT
90th Mat Cen (Armt & Cbt Veh)
92nd Mat Cen (WVeh)
94th Mat Cen (Comm & Elect)
96th Mat Cen (Grnd Spt Equip)
98th Mat Cen (Msl)
70th Spt Cen (Avn)
20th Gen Sup Cen

AMMUNITION
55th-56th Ammo Bn

MAINTENANCE
90th Maint Bn (GS)
95th Maint Bn (DS)
71st Trans Ac Maint Bn (DS/GS)
924th-925th LE Maint Co (GS)
930th-931st Hvy Eq Maint Co (GS)
700th-701st Trans Ac Maint Co (DS)
900th-901st Maint Co (Rr) (DS)
908th-910th Lt Maint Co (Fwd) (DS)
706th-707th Trans Ac Maint Co (GS)
932nd-933rd Coll & Class Co
934th Tire Repair Co

MEDICAL
HHD, 80th Medical Brigade
800th-809th Medical Bn
850th-852nd Med Air Amb Co
855th-860th Med Amb Co
865th-868th Med Clearance Co
809th-813th Cbt Spt Hosp
834th-836th Evac Hosp
845th-848th MEDSOM

PERSONAL & ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
10th Pers & Admin Bn
100th-101st Pers Svc Co
108th Admin Svcs Det
110th-112th Repl Reg Det
126th-143rd AG Postal Service Org
144th-145th SPS Org
148th-149th Army Band

FINANCE
110th-114th Fin Svc Org

SUPPLY & SERVICES
33rd Petrol Group
20th-22nd Sup & Svc Bn
31st-32nd Petrol Op Bn
33rd Petrol Sup Bn (GS)
201st-204th Sup & Svc Co (DS)
223rd-225th Fld Svc Co (GS)(Fwd)
235th Fld Svc Co (GS)
238th-241st Gen Sup Co (GS)
248th-249th Rep Parts Sup Co (GS)(Corps)
236th Hv Mat Cpt Co (GS)
253rd-254th Ac & Msl Repair Parts Co
255th-256th QM Adrp Sup Co
257th-260th Petrl Sup Co
280th-281st Eng Eq Op Tm (Water Purif)
278th QM Svc Org (Petrol Prod Lab)

CIVIL AFFAIRS
50th CA Bn

TRANSPORTATION (LESS AVN)
HHC, 7th Trans Bde
HHC, 70th-71st TMT Grp
771st-778th TMT Bn
701st-704th Trans Lt Trk Co (2.5-ton)
705th-708th Trans Lt Trk Co (5-ton)
709th-720th Trans Med Trk Co (Cgo)
721st-724th Trans Med Trk Co (Petrol)
729th-730th Trans Hv Trk Co


As you can see, there is quite an extensive list of support units, and this is just for a single Corps! I should note, that while this is the doctrine troop list, in real life, no Corps had this many support units during the Cold War.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

As you can see, there is quite an extensive list of support units, and this is just for a single Corps! I should note, that while this is the doctrine troop list, in real life, no Corps had this many support units during the Cold War.

That is the truth in real life none of the units had their full compliment until they were deploying...*shrug*

[Dog 6]

good stuff dragoon. thanks!

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

That is the truth in real life none of the units had their full compliment until they were deploying...*shrug*

In truth, no service has fielded all of the doctrine units since WWII! And I doubt that we will ever see mobilization on that kind of scale ever again.

Still, as a paper study, it has its points

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Dog 6

good stuff dragoon. thanks!

No Prob!

Just for a trivia....this troop list represents over 350 TO&E tables....someday I'll get my greedy claws on all of them!

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah well WWII the US had planned on some 187 Divisions, but ended up with half of that since so many troops were needed for support roles.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Yeah well WWII the US had planned on some 187 Divisions, but ended up with half of that since so many troops were needed for support roles.

A lot of that was Army Ground Forces desire to have the smallest, most combat effective division. Then grouping the extra units at Army/Corps level...too bad they didn't realize that once the ole fhit hit the san that the divisions would latch onto as many extra combat elements as they could get their greedy hands on. 1st Infantry Division, at one time had two tank bns, two tank destroyer bns, a cavalry sqn, three antiaircraft bns, two field artillery bns and a combat command from an armored division....maybe the stories about the Army consisting of the Big Red One and a million replacements were true!

S&T magazine, back in the SPI days, did a study and figured out that if the "extra" combat elements had been converted into divisions, that at least another 42 divisions could have been fielded. One thing was for sure....a lot of waste and duplicated effort went into fielding the WWII army.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

A lot of that was Army Ground Forces desire to have the smallest, most combat effective division. Then grouping the extra units at Army/Corps level...too bad they didn't realize that once the ole fhit hit the san that the divisions would latch onto as many extra combat elements as they could get their greedy hands on. 1st Infantry Division, at one time had two tank bns, two tank destroyer bns, a cavalry sqn, three antiaircraft bns, two field artillery bns and a combat command from an armored division....maybe the stories about the Army consisting of the Big Red One and a million replacements were true!

S&T magazine, back in the SPI days, did a study and figured out that if the "extra" combat elements had been converted into divisions, that at least another 42 divisions could have been fielded. One thing was for sure....a lot of waste and duplicated effort went into fielding the WWII army.

I don't think any Division actually went into with just their authorize strength. Even when they units detached to others and if they were on the line, they had other units attached to replace them...

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

I don't think any Division actually went into with just their authorize strength. Even when they units detached to others and if they were on the line, they had other units attached to replace them...

Actually, when the divisions didn't have their support elements, the "regular" divisions had been so stripped of any excess that when committed by themselves, the losses outstripped the ability of the division to replace. An example would be the 106th Infantry Division....only attachments it had was a towed tank destroyer battalion, and part of a antiaircraft battalion...and of course, it didn't help that they were grass green!

And then there was the practise by the veteran divisions of laying their hands on anything resembling an automatic weapon. The 2nd Infantry Division had an average of two BARs per squad, and there were some squads that had as many as 4 BARs and a bazooka, well above normal TO&E!! Not to mention helping themselves to German field phones, they were able to wire in every unit, right down to squad level...when the 106th took over the positions, they didn't have the sweet stuff...and it cost them dearly.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Yeah well WWII the US had planned on some 187 Divisions, but ended up with half of that since so many troops were needed for support roles.

They also didn't quite account for the manpower that would be needed to field the Army Air Force and base forces, either. They had to compromise on 90 divisions.

A big reason the divisions were stripped down as much as they were, was to minimize the shipping needed to send them overseas. After all, a division going to the Pacific might not need the tank-destroyer battalion or tank battalion that an ETO division did. And even then, there were not enough GHQ tank or TD battalions for each infantry division to keep one of each permanently, they rotated among divisions as needed in the ETO.

As it was, just about all of the "normal" attachments (tank battalion, AAA battalion) were standardized in the postwar TO&E.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah that is another problem is when people help themselves with their light fingers to equip their unit to higher than TO&E.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Yeah that is another problem is when people help themselves with their light fingers to equip their unit to higher than TO&E.

that depends on who's supply dump is being used. one of the enemies LMG's is worth 10 of your own and such. considering all the resources put into geting one new LMG to the front when you need it compared to stealing one from the other guy.

hence why in game i tend to live off the commies backs(not like i have that many other options without a friendly supply chain)

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

They also didn't quite account for the manpower that would be needed to field the Army Air Force and base forces, either. They had to compromise on 90 divisions.

A big reason the divisions were stripped down as much as they were, was to minimize the shipping needed to send them overseas. After all, a division going to the Pacific might not need the tank-destroyer battalion or tank battalion that an ETO division did. And even then, there were not enough GHQ tank or TD battalions for each infantry division to keep one of each permanently, they rotated among divisions as needed in the ETO.

As it was, just about all of the "normal" attachments (tank battalion, AAA battalion) were standardized in the postwar TO&E.

Yeah, that led to the divisional tank battalion, the regimental cannon company (M-4 w/105mm hows), the regimental tank company (17 M-26)...by the time all of the "attachments" became official, the infantry division would field 197 tanks...the armored divisions would have 272 tanks.

The shipping problem was the real drive to streamline the divisions. But it was the excess wasted on the numerous support units that really caused the problems. This bleed off heavily impacted the combat arms to such an extent that by 1944, Eisenhower had to make the decision to cull his service units in order to make up shortfalls in infantry replacements, this led Marshall to cancel many programs (ATSP for one, several army air forces cadet classes for another) and send these men to Europe as replacements.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by bobcat

that depends on who's supply dump is being used. one of the enemies LMG's is worth 10 of your own and such. considering all the resources put into geting one new LMG to the front when you need it compared to stealing one from the other guy.

hence why in game i tend to live off the commies backs(not like i have that many other options without a friendly supply chain)

Favorite GIs antitank weapon was a Panzerfaust! Just like the GIs perferred the MP-40 over the M-3 SMG and liked to wear jackboots and carry the German Army's shelter half, it was better than the issue crap!

[bobcat]

and the tenth's favorite machinegun was the MG42. (of course we were told to grab everything we could off the germans right before we took riva ridge and mount belvadere)

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Favorite GIs antitank weapon was a Panzerfaust! Just like the GIs perferred the MP-40 over the M-3 SMG and liked to wear jackboots and carry the German Army's shelter half, it was better than the issue crap!

Yeah well all seemed to be in endless supply by capturing the enemy.

The Panzerfaust was more effective than what was issued.

The MP-40 was decent weapon to pick up. It still boggles my mind at time the amount of submachine guns that one could find with infantry units. Yeah I know the basic rifles were you had to pull the trigger for each shot, regardless if it was old bolt action or semi-auto load.

Then again it boggles my mind that M-3 was kept in the armories for as long as it was. Talk about gun literally pressed stamped, granted many of the submachine guns were, but they took the M-3 to the extreme. Like the US Army couldn't find a more suitable replacement until the M4 carbine.

As for the Jackboot and shelter half well it doesn't surprise me. I remember when I was in we were always required to take our sleeping bag and shelter half. Which seemed to be waste of time since we weren't ever allowed to use the shelter half, and dragging out your sleeping bag meant you had to waste time in the morning rolling the damn thing up. Especially when you had poncho and it liner to use for shelter and sleeping in. Sadly, never used the poncho as such. Much like the field jackets we were issued, but never allowed to used, but the liners use with a sweater under your bdu blouse almost kept you as warm on those cold days...lol

[Legbreaker]

Issued but not used!? What madness is that!? :O
I made a point of at least trying every issued item, even those that had developed a bad reputation. Uncovered a few gems that way such as the light weight sleeping bag (and cover) aka "horse blanket". Most didn't use them (ok, everyone except me) because they were rough and scratchy. Well, after a run through the wash to clean it, it was soft, warm, compact, and above all, light! Awesome piece of kit. Even better, it was the perfect size to fit over the heavy winter sleeping bag as an additional layer of warm goodness!

In my opinion, if it's issued, it's there to be used!

[pmulcahy11b]

Just think about the massive amount of TA-50 (or "kit") you were issued at every duty station. You used maybe a quarter of it, and the rest stayed home, to be taken out every so often to make sure it's still serviceable. An air mattress? What knucklehead thought of that...

The most TA-50 I used was in Korea, and the extra stuff was mainly cold-weather items.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

An air mattress?

Depends on where you are I suppose. It can be vital in the cold.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah it was amazing the amount of the equipment that would spend more time in storage locker then with you in the field for example the Gas Mask... While at Bragg I think we only dragged it out for IG, the training days for MOPP gear, and Corps FXs where we could be sent anywhere along the coast or to Fort Campbell depending on the exercise. Otherwise the bulk thing stayed tucked away.

Now that has me chuckling thinking about the new load bearing system is set up, it would make it impossible for left hand shooter to have leg hoster for their side arm...lol

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Issued but not used!? What madness is that!? :O
I made a point of at least trying ever issue item, even thought that had developed a bad reputation. Uncovered a few gems that way such as the light weight sleeping bag (and cover) aka "horse blanket". Most didn't use them (ok, everyone except me) because they were rough and scratchy. Well, after a run through the wash to clean it, it was soft, warm, compact, and above all, light! Awesome piece of kit. Even better, it was the perfect size to fit over the heavy winter sleeping bag as an additional layer of warm goodness!

In my opinion, if it's issued, it's there to be used!

Yeah well that why many of used the poncho liners to sleep in and the poncho to set up shelter to sleep under than drag out the sleeping bag and shelter half. They were both hell lot easier to pick up/take down and stow away than those two bulky things. Silly thing of it was of the large rucksacks we had those two items took up the bottom of third of everyone.

[Legbreaker]

You were issued a gas mask permanently? :O

Over here you got a basic issue. Items such as gas masks, entrenching tools, compasses, even (early on anyway) winter sleeping bags were issued on an as need, per exercise basis. It kept the crap you had to cart around to a minimum and the QM always had whatever was needed, in the quantity actually needed.

All we really kept, at least as far as field gear anyway, was uniforms, webbing, pack and about another 15-20kgs of gear.

Non-field gear issued consisted of little more than a few sets of "poly's" (polyester khaki uniforms for on base or parade ground). My Company was unique in the Army being also issued a kilt for ceremonial duties.

I've got a list of my issued items floating about somewhere. I'll post when I can find it.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Yeah it was amazing the amount of the equipment that would spend more time in storage locker then with you in the field for example the Gas Mask...

To me it seems strange that American units wouldn't have their gas mask with them at all times while in the field. We consider it to be life saving equipment - being no different than your rifle, helmet, and kevlar.

[Abbott Shaull]

The sad thing for many exercise it and the rest of mopp gear were in the rucksack.

Yes I agree it would seem that it is valuable piece of defensive equipment, I am also including day trips out to this range or that range where we had to have load bearing equipment, kevlar, and weapon.

[Abbott Shaull]

While we were in we had duffle bag overflowing of gear that spent more time in the locker than in use...

[helbent4]

Group,

Following is a link to the NATO OOB for 1989. It's not the complete document, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37695/NATO...of-Battle-1989

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

Unfortunately impossible to save without signing up for a Scribd or Facebook account.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

To me it seems strange that American units wouldn't have their gas mask with them at all times while in the field. We consider it to be life saving equipment - being no different than your rifle, helmet, and kevlar.

Every unit I've ever been, including the National Guard, required the carriage of the protective mask.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Items such as gas masks, entrenching tools, compasses, even (early on anyway) winter sleeping bags were issued on an as need, per exercise basis. It kept the crap you had to cart around to a minimum and the QM always had whatever was needed, in the quantity actually needed.

The only unit where we were issued the protective mask as basic issue was in Korea. At all the other units, it was issued only when we went to the field or for special training. In Korea, we also had to keep real MOPP suits and filters in vacuum-packed foil in out vehicles, and they were checked more-or-less monthly by one of the NBC sergeants to make sure the seal was intact and that the mask was being kept in working order.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Unfortunately impossible to save without signing up for a Scribd or Facebook account.

Paul,

Can you read it okay?

Tony