Alternate British Armed Forces stuff...

[natehale1971]

This is some of what I'm working on... An expansion of the British Armed Forces for a world that the Cold War never ended, and progressed into our world of day (kind of like a more serious version of Archer, that will be the backdrop for the Twilight War game I want to run).

I've been working on alot of things for the British Army.

Right now, this is what i have about the Home Guard that was organized after the Territorial Army was mobilized when the Twilight War had gotten started. I'm guessing at what weapons, vehicles and equipment that the Home Guard would be equipped with... basicly having them wearing old-style pre-DPM battle dress uniforms (going with them wearing them for service dress and combat dress). I saw them using old weapons, apcs and tanks that were still in strategic stockpiles.


British Home Guard

The British Government began organizing a modern Home Guard as Territorial Army units were being activated for their immediate mobilization for deployment overseas, along with the reestablishment of many of the disestablished & disbanded units of the past decades for expanding the Regular Army. The Home Guard

The British Home Guard units were equipped with weapons, vehicles and equipment that were issued from the strategic stockpiles. Home Guard units wore khaki battle dress uniforms that had been retired after the adoption of the modern DPM battle dress.

The British Home Guard would use the same ranks as the British Army, with the highest rank being that of either General or Lieutenant General (or even Major General)... I don't know yet. The Home Guard is suppose to be their to help protect the home front with part-time soldiers under the direction of both the British Army and the Police Force.

I was thinking of the name used for the rank of Private being Warder, but i don't know yet.

L1A1 SLR 7.62mm assault rifle
FV214 Conqueror main battle tank
FV4007 Centurion main battle tank


I'm also coming up with fictional vehicles that are based on some actual concepts as well.. like unmanned aerial vehicles, and a fifth generation fighter... an updated harrier jumpjet for the British aircraft carriers.

The British Defense Industry was increased to provide export sales to commonwealth states... with the collapse of the EU proposals, and growth of various competing military alliances (Med Alliances, Congo Pact, Beijing Pact, Havana Pact, ect) they had alot of people who'd be buying from them.

BAE Systems Corax unmanned aerial vehicle
BAE Systems Phoenix reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle
BAE Systems <> high endurance reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle
BAE Systems Fury high endurance unmanned combat aerial vehicle
Zephyr
BAE Systems <> unmanned combat aerial vehicle


Royal Ordnance
Royal Ordnance Factory
Royal Small Arms Factory (Enfield)
Birmingham Small Arms Company

Vickers Defense Systems
Westland Helicopters

British Aerospace Systems / BAE Systems

BAE Systems Land and Armaments
BAE Systems Surface Fleet Solutions
BAE Systems Global Combat Systems Munitions


Hawker Siddeley Group
Hawker Siddeley Aviation (HSA): Aircraft division
Hawker Siddeley Dynamics (HSD): Guided missiles & Space Technology.



Royal Navy ranks:
O-12: Admiral of the Fleet (Adm of the Fleet)
O-11: Fleet Admiral (FAdm)
O-10: Admiral (Adm)
O-9: Vice Admiral (VAdm)
O-8: Rear Admiral (RAdm)
O-7: Commodore (Cdre)
O-6: Captain (Capt)
O-5: Commander (Cdr)
O-4: Lieutenant Commander (Lt Cdr)
O-3: Lieutenant (Lt)
O-2: Sub-Lieutenant (SLt)
O-1: Midshipman (Mid) / Acting Sub-Lieutenant (ASL)
OR-9: Warrant Officer One (WO1)
OR-8: Warrant Officer Two (WO2)
OR-7: Chief Petty Officer (CPO)
OR-6: Petty Officer (PO)
OR-4: Leading Rating or Leading Seaman (LH)
OR-2: Able Rating or Able Seaman (AB)
OR-1: Ordinary Rating Ordinary Seaman (ORD)

Royal Marine ranks:
O-10: General (Gen)
O-9: Lieutenant General (Lt-Gen)
O-8: Major General (Maj-Gen)
O-7: Brigadier (Brig)
O-6: Colonel (Col)
O-5: Lieutenant Colonel (Lt Col)
O-4: Major (Maj)
O-3: Captain (Capt)
O-2: Lieutenant (Lt)
O-1: Second Lieutenant (2Lt)
OR-9: Warrant Officer One
OR-8: Warrant Officer Two
OR-7: Color Sergeant (CSgt)
OR-6: Sergeant
OR-4: Corporal
OR-3: Lance Corporal
OR-1: Marine (Mne)


British Army ranks:
O-12: Marshal of the British Army
O-11: Field Marshal (FM)
O-10: General (Gen)
O-9: Lieutenant General (Lt-Gen)
O-8: Major General (Maj-Gen)
O-7: Brigaider (Brig)
O-6: Colonel (Col)
O-5: Lieutenant Colonel (Lt Col)
O-4: Major (Maj)
O-3: Captain (Capt)
O-2: Lieutenant (Lt)
O-1: Second Lieutenant (2Lt)
OR-9: Warrant Officer One
OR-8: Warrant Officer Two
OR-7: Staff Sergeant (SSgt) / Color Sergeant (CSgt)
OR-6: Sergeant (Sgt)
OR-4: Corporal (Cpl) / Bombardier
OR-3: Lance Corporal (LCpl) / Lance Bombardier
OR-1: Private (Pte)


Royal Air Force ranks: I debated on the rank of Senior Air Chief Marshal for the O-11 rank... but it didn't really seem to fit. Any suggestion would be apprecated.
O-12: Marshal of the Royal Air Force (MRAF)
O-11:
O-10: Air Chief Marshal (Air Chf Mshl)
O-9: Air Marshal (Air Mshl)
O-8: Air Vice Marshal (AVM)
O-7: Air Commodore (Air Cdre)
O-6: Group Captain (Gp Capt)
O-5: Wing Commander (Wg Cdr)
O-4: Squadron Leader (Sqn Ldr)
O-3: Flight Lieutenant (Flt Lt)
O-2: Flying Officer (Fg Off)
O-1: Pilot Officer (Plt Off) / Acting Pilot Officer (APO)
OR-9: Warrant Officer (WO) / Master Aircrew (MAcr)
OR-7: Chief Technician (Chf Tech) / Flight Sergeant (Flt Sgt)
OR-5: Technician (Tech) / Sergeant (Sgt)
OR-4: Corporal (Cpl)
OR-3: Senior Aircraftman or Senior Aircraftwoman (SAC) / Lance Corporal (LCpl)
OR-2: Leading Aircraftman or Leading Aircraftwoman (LAC)
OR-1: Aircraftman or Aircraftwoman (AC)


Regimental Corporal Major (Regimental Sergeant major)

Staff Corporal (Staff Sergeant)
Corporal of Horse (Sergeant)
Lance Corporal of Horse (Lance Sergeant /Corporal)
Lance Corporal

Airtrooper (Atpr)
Bugler (Bgr)
Craftsman (Cfn)
Drummer (Dmr)
Fusilier (Fus)
Gunner (Gnr)
Guardsman (Gdsm)
Highlander (Hldr)
Kingsman (Kgn)
Marine (Mne) Bandsman ()
Musician (Mus)
Piper (Ppr)
Ranger (Rgr)
Rifleman (Rfn)
Sapper (Spr)
Signaller (Sig)
Trooper (Tpr)
Trumpeter (Tptr)

[95th Rifleman]

Home guard would make sense in time of war.

The TA would be the first called up and slotted into regular battalions, after that concsription would kick in so it's entirely possible for a WW2-style homeguard to be formed from old men and young lads.

I was thinking of women, would they be subject to conscription? It's an interesting point in the modern world where so many branches and services are open to women. It would make sense to conscript women aswell and use them in as many non-combat roles as possible, thus freeing men for front-line combat duty.

[natehale1971]

The British Unified Combatant Commands...

I've been hunting to find out if the British Armed Forces has anything like the United States Unified Combantant Commands, and haven't found anything yet.. So I came up with something along these lines...


British Forces Europe
British Forces Americas (North, Central & South America)
British Forces Africa
British Forces Far East (Asia & Pacific Rim)
British Forces Near East (Middle East)
British Forces Gibraltar
British Forces Hong Kong
British Forces Brunei
British Forces Cyprus
British Forces Falkland Islands
British Forces Caribbean (or would it be British Forces Jamica?)


British Army
-Regular Army
-Territorial Army
-Home Guard

Royal Navy
-Royal Navy Reserve
-Royal Marines

Royal Air Force

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Home guard would make sense in time of war.

The TA would be the first called up and slotted into regular battalions, after that concsription would kick in so it's entirely possible for a WW2-style homeguard to be formed from old men and young lads.

I was thinking of women, would they be subject to conscription? It's an interesting point in the modern world where so many branches and services are open to women. It would make sense to conscript women aswell and use them in as many non-combat roles as possible, thus freeing men for front-line combat duty.

Yes... Conscription would inculde women. in a way I was thinking that by volunteering for service in the Home Guard, it could allow for women to not get drafted for the Regular or Territorial Army. Especially those who are single mothers.

[95th Rifleman]

In a major war the territorial army would cease to exist.

The terrirtorials would be folded into the regular army. The terrirtorials are a purely peacetime construct. Very different from the US national guards.

[natehale1971]

Even after having been folded into the Regular Army, would they still have the title as having original been Territorial Army units? Ie... the (TA) after their name? Or is that removed?

In the US we have the Regular Army, the Army National Guard and Conscripts that are brought together to create the Army of the United States (AUS).

On our dogtags the service number would be followed up with RA for regular army, ARNG for National Guard and AUS for drafted personnel. is there anything like that for the British dogtags?

[Rainbow Six]

The Home Service Force (HSF) would fill the role of the Home Guard. In the event of a major War it would probably be expanded and recruitement criteria probably relaxed to include those who didn't have prior military service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Service_Force

[95th Rifleman]

Nope, goes back to the Regimental system.

Most TA units are a battalion of a regular Regiment, I'll give you an example.

The Rifles

The Rifles have 5 regular battalions, 1st Btn is a commando unit, 2nd and 3rd are light infantry, 4th is mechanised and 5th is Armoured.

In the british army a mechanised Btn uses older APCs while Armoured infantry use the Warrior IFV.

The Rifles have two TA Btns 6th and 7th.

When the brown stuff hits the rotary air cooling device, the 6th and 7th will be folded into the regular Btns and will just become regular infantry.

TA are essentilay part-time regulars who share the regimental identity of their parent unit. It's a very different system to the US natonal guards.

[Rainbow Six]

To be fair, during the Cold War the TA had slightly different roles. Looking purely at the Infantry there were iirc - (I'm doing this from memory and while my boss isn't looking) forty one TA Infantry battalions. Fourteen were slated for home defence, whilst the remainder were allocated a BAOR reinforcement role - Cold War plans called for virtually the entire 2nd Infantry Division to be formed from Territorials. They would have fought as organised Battalions (their role iirc was to defend the rear areas and supply lines).

However since the end of the Cold War the TA have served primarily to reinforce Regular units, much as 95th Rifleman has outlined with the Rifles. For example most regular units serving in Afghanistan at the moment will have TA soldiers who have volunteered to serve on an individual basis, so a TA Paratrooper who is nominally part of the 4th Battalion (the TA's only remaining Para Bn) would be attached to one of teh Regular Para Battalions for a tour on Afghanistan.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

To be fair, during the Cold War the TA had slightly different roles. Looking purely at the Infantry there were iirc - (I'm doing this from memory and while my boss isn't looking) forty one TA Infantry battalions. Fourteen were slated for home defence, whilst the remainder were allocated a BAOR reinforcement role - Cold War plans called for virtually the entire 2nd Infantry Division to be formed from Territorials. They would have fought as organised Battalions (their role iirc was to defend the rear areas and supply lines).

However since the end of the Cold War the TA have served primarily to reinforce Regular units, much as 95th Rifleman has outlined with the Rifles. For example most regular units serving in Afghanistan at the moment will have TA soldiers who have volunteered to serve on an individual basis, so a TA Paratrooper who is nominally part of the 4th Battalion (the TA's only remaining Para Bn) would be attached to one of teh Regular Para Battalions for a tour on Afghanistan.

Good point, well made. I'm thinking from today's perspective.

In either case when a TA soldier is called up in time of war to either reinforce an existing regiment or form a new one, he'll cease to be TA.

Assuming the British army didn't get raped by defence cuts i suppose we'd have to look at an organisatiom morelike the 80's than the last 10 years.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Assuming the British army didn't get raped by defence cuts i suppose we'd have to look at an organisatiom morelike the 80's than the last 10 years.

Yep...the way I see it Nate's going for a continued Cold War with a strengthened British Army. Possibly one where there's still a Strategic Defence Review circa 1990 but it increases rather than decreases Army numbers.

[perardua]

The RAF has the Royal Auxiliary Air Force as its closest equivalent to the TA. I also struggle to believe that there would be a surplus of khaki uniforms floating about in a warehouse somewhere in the 90s as compared to the enormous number of DPM items produced over the years. I imagine that the majority of the WW2 style battledress would have been disposed of by that point. It might make more sense for the regular forces and better equipped reserve units to be wearing CS95, at least in the early stages of the war, and the rest of the reserves and the Home Guard to be wearing older version of DPM dress. Alternatively, you could always stick the Home Guard in OG lightweights as the Army moves towards wearing CS95 as their working dress and stops issuing barracks dress.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by perardua

I also struggle to believe that there would be a surplus of khaki uniforms floating about in a warehouse somewhere in the 90s as compared to the enormous number of DPM items produced over the years. I imagine that the majority of the WW2 style battledress would have been disposed of by that point. It might make more sense for the regular forces and better equipped reserve units to be wearing CS95, at least in the early stages of the war, and the rest of the reserves and the Home Guard to be wearing older version of DPM dress.

Agreed.

Perhaps HSF troops could be issued DPM jackets with OG trousers?

[perardua]

And puttees?

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by perardua

And puttees?

Why not!

There's actually a useful article on the Twilight 2000 wiki about British uniforms...

http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/British_Uniform

And on that note I better get back to work!

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Yep...the way I see it Nate's going for a continued Cold War with a strengthened British Army. Possibly one where there's still a Strategic Defence Review circa 1990 but it increases rather than decreases Army numbers.

Exactly... The Black Winter that saw the Soviet Forces in Eastern Europe opening a massive can of whop-ass that was used to kick the Soviet Bloc back in line really scared the shit out of everyone... the surprise and swiftness that the Soviet forces had mobilized and carried out their operation had occuried in such a way that NATO wasn't really sure what was happening until it was too late.

Thus the NATO forces remained at full strength and developed force increases instead of decreases.

Hong Kong never was turned over to the PRC, the Treaty of Nanking that gave Hong Kong in perpetuity and the discovery of a wartime treaty between the UK and both sides of the Chinese Civil War that not only reinforced this, but gave the UK some more territory around Hong Kong (and opened up the possiblities of other concession areas throughout China that would have been brokered by the British with what ever government would be ruling China).

Now that i know that Territorial Army units are Light Infantry and Motorized Infantry units... I can understand better what's happening.

reestablishiment of disbanded (or just the creation of new) mechanized infantry, armoured and cavalry units might be a big thing during the expansion of the British Armed Forces.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Now that i know that Territorial Army units are Light Infantry and Motorized Infantry units... I can understand better what's happening.

Not exactly.

The Rifle's TA are light and motorised because that is the Rifle's main battle role.

Every Regiment's TA unit is roughly the same as their parent Regiment. Artillery TA are trained gunners, Cavalry TA are trained tankers etc.

[natehale1971]

I was picturing the Home Guard having a look of paramilitary (well, armed police) instead of the regular British Army. That's why i was going with the pre-DPM battle dress being issued from the stockpiles along with civilian articles.

I was seeing the Home Guard helping the Police with keeping the peace... especially dealing with anti-war riots that would be breaking out after the implimentation of the Draft on a very wide scale that included women. But the legislation would give women the ability to join the Home Guard to escape the draft (with preference to single mothers for such actions).

Also Consiencious Objectors wouldn't be getting out of serving in some kind of uniformed capacity... be it in the Home Guard or as a member of a construction battalion who'd be tasked with building, repairing and clearing areas that had been attacked.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Not exactly.

The Rifle's TA are light and motorised because that is the Rifle's main battle role.

Every Regiment's TA unit is roughly the same as their parent Regiment. Artillery TA are trained gunners, Cavalry TA are trained tankers etc.

Ah. thanks for the clarification.

when a TA unit is activated into a RA unit, they'd be deployed overseas, but how long would it take for them to be deployed? Would additional units that were being established/mobilized be classed as TA or just a new RA unit as it transititions during training?

[Rainbow Six]

Question - when did you plan to implement conscription? Before the War starts (and if so, how many years) or after it has started?

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Question - when did you plan to implement conscription? Before the War starts (and if so, how many years) or after it has started?

Conscription starts about the same time as the US and Canadians instituted it... shortly after NATO throws in support for the two German states in evicting the Soviets right after the Czechoslovak forces invaded Southern Germany and pretty much attacked the US forces in Bavaira... thus, the OFFICIAL start of the Europ-Soviet War (though many observers and commentators consider the DNVA Putsch and the West German Bundeswehr handling the eviction as the start of the Euro-Soviet War).

the nuclear exchanges in Europe and North America isn't for a year and half after that.

[Sanjuro]

Highest rank in all three Armed services is O-11;
RAF- Marshal of the RAF
RN- Admiral of the Fleet
Army- Field Marshal
Even at Second World War manning levels, these proved sufficient to cover all the required posts.
At current levels, these ranks are not necessary- promotion to O-11 tends to be a reward for long service as an alternative to retirement. The current Chief of Defence Staff is a General; his juniors as Chief of the General Staff, Chief of the Air Staff and First Sea Lord are all also O-10s.
Congratulations at finding all those variants on the rank of Private; there were some in there even I'd forgotten! (along with others I only recognise from Afghanistan casualty lists).
I would concur with the other posters about khaki uniforms- DPM for Home Guard is more likely, along with '58 pattern webbing seems more likely.

[Sanjuro]

when a TA unit is activated into a RA unit, they'd be deployed overseas, but how long would it take for them to be deployed? Would additional units that were being established/mobilized be classed as TA or just a new RA unit as it transititions during training?

TA units tasked to BAOR would be available within 2 weeks or so from a standing start- this could be expected to be less if there was a period of tension before the war started. A difference in quality is apparent for about 6 weeks of war use- after that TA units are indistinguishable from regulars.
During WW2 regular recruitment actually ceased- all new recruits were considered to be Hostilities Only personnel, subject to demob at the end of the war; for example the RAF stopped recruiting before WW2 started, and passed recruiting to the RAFVR. Royal Auxiliary Air Force units traditionally handled their own recruitment- they also were folded into the RAF as just another unit for the duration of the war.
I believe that before WW1 the TA had an organisation more like the US State National Guards, (hence the name Territorial) but that they were changed to their modern form as part of the Army reforms under Field Marshal Lord Roberts VC (Bobs, as Kipling called him).

[natehale1971]

I know... please remember this is an alternate setting and that the addition of the O-12 rank was something that was used in as ranks that were held by the Prime Minister, Defense Minister and Monarch since they took active roles in the actual military planning.

Prince William and Prince Harry take a very active role in the armed forces... In fact, in this setting Prince Harry would prove himself to be an exceptionally gifted when it comes to military strategy and logistics planning. Prince William bascily became the centre of morale boosting activties, while Harry was seen as a the Fighting Man's Prince... sort of like Bradley was seen as the "Fighting Man's General" during the Second World War.

I've actually written up the Defense Staff... and while the O-11 and O-10 ranks were used for them, it was the fact that the Prime Minister and Royals had held a military rank before the outbreak of the war. and some of the non-military personnel were treating them as if they had no actual experience. And thus the creation of the wartime ranks.

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

Highest rank in all three Armed services is O-11;
RAF- Marshal of the RAF
RN- Admiral of the Fleet
Army- Field Marshal
Even at Second World War manning levels, these proved sufficient to cover all the required posts.
At current levels, these ranks are not necessary- promotion to O-11 tends to be a reward for long service as an alternative to retirement. The current Chief of Defence Staff is a General; his juniors as Chief of the General Staff, Chief of the Air Staff and First Sea Lord are all also O-10s.
Congratulations at finding all those variants on the rank of Private; there were some in there even I'd forgotten! (along with others I only recognise from Afghanistan casualty lists).
I would concur with the other posters about khaki uniforms- DPM for Home Guard is more likely, along with '58 pattern webbing seems more likely.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

reestablishiment of disbanded (or just the creation of new) mechanized infantry, armoured and cavalry units might be a big thing during the expansion of the British Armed Forces.

Technicly no disbanded unit is removed from the rolls. It takes some act of great shame or treason for that to happen. So older regiments would just be rebuilt, given the old regimental name and designation and sent forth.
This helps to create a sense of history in a new regiment.

Also regiments previously amalgamated can be expanded and restored to their original colours. An example would be the 9th/12th Lancers (one of our recon regiments), they could be expanded and restored as two seperate regiments, the 9th lancers and the 12th lancers.

A long term rebuilding project would focus on restoring previously almagamated regiments before building new ones as it's easier to expand a current unit and then split it than it is to build from scratch.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Conscription starts about the same time as the US and Canadians instituted it... shortly after NATO throws in support for the two German states in evicting the Soviets right after the Czechoslovak forces invaded Southern Germany and pretty much attacked the US forces in Bavaira... thus, the OFFICIAL start of the Europ-Soviet War (though many observers and commentators consider the DNVA Putsch and the West German Bundeswehr handling the eviction as the start of the Euro-Soviet War).

the nuclear exchanges in Europe and North America isn't for a year and half after that.

OK...

I have to say that in my opinion without conscription any expansion of the British Army at the end of the 80's / start of the 90's is going to be relatively modest...the military were struggling to keep the units that they had at full strength without raising any new ones. There are various proposed orders of battle for a T2K British military (including one of mine! ) most of which add in a couple of Infantry Battalions - extra Gurkha Battalions are also a popular option on the basis that 1) the Gurkhas always have more applicants than they have places for and 2) it would be a less expensive option for the British Government. Likely candidiates for "resurrection" (again I'm going from memory) were the 4th Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment (which existed until around 1975), 4th Battalion, Queen's Regiment, and 4th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (as others have already stated I think it's much more likely for existing Regiments to get additional Battalions rather than new formations being raised - tradition and all that...)

Another option would be to add one (or more) TA Armoured Regiments with MBT's, probably Chieftains that would otherwise have been placed in storage (IRL there were five TA Armoured Regiments at the end of the Cold War, none of which were equipped with heavy armour - two were earmarked for the BAOR (2nd Infantry Division) and were equipped primarily with the Fox armoured car and three of which were earmarked for Home Defence and (iirc) equipped primarily with Land Rovers.

During the Cold War the BAOR's strength was four Divisions - 1st, 3rd, and 4th Armoured, all of which were Regular Army Divisions consisting of approximately six - seven armoured Regiments (one Recce and the others MBT) and six infantry Battalions equipped with the Warrior. Additional TA Battalions would be added in time of War (most TA Bns would go to the 4th Dvn, which (I think) was the reserve Division. The other Division was the 2nd Infantry which consisted of one regular Infantry Brigade (24th) in an Airmobile role and two TA Infantry Brigades.

Now, that said, taking on board the fact that this is an alternate setting you could possibly look at adding another Division to the regular order of battle, possibly to serve as some sort of strategic reserve with a mix of armour, airborne, and light / mech Infantry...kind of likethe old Field Forces that existed before the BAOR was restructured at the start of the 80's. You could then form another Division (in addition to the Strategic Reserve Division) after the fighting has started (much the way GDW did with their 5th Division) to give you six Divisions in Europe.

[natehale1971]

95th Rifleman...

I have a quesiton...

Would the British Army use Commonwealth Nations Units to help flesh out Divisions and Corps? The Reason I ask, is that the Canadian Army and Austrialian Army sent troops to Europe prior to the fighting in the Far East and Near East needed troops to be sent there as well...

How would they be used as Brigades (to round out a division) or Divisions (to round out Corps)? Or would they be a seperate command?

[natehale1971]

I like the idea of extra Gurkha battalions, because that would definately be what would be happening. in fact it was one of the things I was thinking of since the begining.

I had thought of other units like the rebirth of the African Rifles that would be a unit similar to the Gurkha's... just drawn from the African Commonwealth states.

As well as units drawn from the other various commonwealth states... due to the extension and expansion of the Cold War, the British Commonwealth of Nations became alot more than a social club. The British Defense Industry got a major boost in the arm by selling hardware to those memberstates to counter the growth of the Med Alliance, Congo Pact, Havana Pact, Beijing Pact, and Baghdad Pact. Each of those alliances grew because the Soviets became the cut-rate weapons suppliers of the world, while no longer providing economic support for revolutions (they left that to the PRC.. the Sino-Soviet War was a completely unexpected war that shouldn't have happened, but when it did... it took EVERYONE by surprise).

One of the things that the British Armed Forces to remember, is that they still have Hong Kong as a Garrison... and have to put forces there after things turn sour with the Beijing Pact when North Korea launches an attack on South Korea and Japan... lot's of things that happen without people understanding why until much later.

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

OK...

I have to say that in my opinion without conscription any expansion of the British Army at the end of the 80's / start of the 90's is going to be relatively modest...the military were struggling to keep the units that they had at full strength without raising any new ones. There are various proposed orders of battle for a T2K British military (including one of mine! ) most of which add in a couple of Infantry Battalions - extra Gurkha Battalions are also a popular option on the basis that 1) the Gurkhas always have more applicants than they have places for and 2) it would be a less expensive option for the British Government. Likely candidiates for "resurrection" (again I'm going from memory) were the 4th Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment (which existed until around 1975), 4th Battalion, Queen's Regiment, and 4th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (as others have already stated I think it's much more likely for existing Regiments to get additional Battalions rather than new formations being raised - tradition and all that...)

Another option would be to add one (or more) TA Armoured Regiments with MBT's, probably Chieftains that would otherwise have been placed in storage (IRL there were five TA Armoured Regiments at the end of the Cold War, none of which were equipped with heavy armour - two were earmarked for the BAOR (2nd Infantry Division) and were equipped primarily with the Fox armoured car and three of which were earmarked for Home Defence and (iirc) equipped primarily with Land Rovers.

During the Cold War the BAOR's strength was four Divisions - 1st, 3rd, and 4th Armoured, all of which were Regular Army Divisions consisting of approximately six - seven armoured Regiments (one Recce and the others MBT) and six infantry Battalions equipped with the Warrior. Additional TA Battalions would be added in time of War (most TA Bns would go to the 4th Dvn, which (I think) was the reserve Division. The other Division was the 2nd Infantry which consisted of one regular Infantry Brigade (24th) in an Airmobile role and two TA Infantry Brigades.

Now, that said, taking on board the fact that this is an alternate setting you could possibly look at adding another Division to the regular order of battle, possibly to serve as some sort of strategic reserve with a mix of armour, airborne, and light / mech Infantry...kind of likethe old Field Forces that existed before the BAOR was restructured at the start of the 80's. You could then form another Division (in addition to the Strategic Reserve Division) after the fighting has started (much the way GDW did with their 5th Division) to give you six Divisions in Europe.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

95th Rifleman...

I have a quesiton...

Would the British Army use Commonwealth Nations Units to help flesh out Divisions and Corps? The Reason I ask, is that the Canadian Army and Austrialian Army sent troops to Europe prior to the fighting in the Far East and Near East needed troops to be sent there as well...

How would they be used as Brigades (to round out a division) or Divisions (to round out Corps)? Or would they be a seperate command?

Dude, stop scaring me! I was about to write about commonwealth when I read the above.

ok, we wouldn't get any Canadians or ANZACs, they are independent nations with their own militaries who serve alongside the british.

However there are severaly countries who send men (and women) to the UK to serve directly in UK regiments. I live in the town of Bicester which is the garriosn town for the 23rd Pioneer regiment. A large percentage of these lads are Fijian with some carribean, St Lucian and african lads aswell as the usual mix of Brits.

I can imagine a stepped up program to recruit for these overseas countries would go alongside an expansion of the Uk forces.

[natehale1971]

How are British Platoons Organized..?

I guess what I am asking, is... What are the positions in the platoon?

Can someone write it out for me in a format that is similar to this?

US Army Platoon Organization (emergency wartime organization)
Section One:
1LT/2LT <name>, Platoon Commander
SGT <name>, Plt Cmdr Radio-Telephone Operator
SGT <name>, Combat Field Medic
SGT <name>, Fire Team Leader
SPC <name>, Grenadier
PFC <name>, Automatic Rifleman
PV2 <name>, Rifleman
SPC <name>, MG Gunner
PFC <name>, MG Assist. Gunner
PV2 <name>, MG Ammo Bearer
SPC <name>, Designated Marksman
Section Two:
SFC <name>, Platoon Sergeant
SPC <name>, Plt Sgt Radio-Telephone Operator
SPC <name>, Combat Field Medic
SGT <name>, Fire Team Leader
SPC <name>, Grenadier
PFC <name>, Automatic Rifleman
PV2 <name>, Rifleman
SPC <name>, MG Gunner
PFC <name>, MG Assist. Gunner
PV2 <name>, MG Ammo Bearer
SPC <name>, Designated Marksman
Section Three:
SSG <name>, Squad Leader
SPC <name>, Radio-Telephone Operator
SPC <name>, Combat Field Medic
SGT <name>, Fire Team Leader
SPC <name>, Grenadier
PFC <name>, Automatic Rifleman
PV2 <name>, Rifleman
SPC <name>, MG Gunner
PFC <name>, MG Assist. Gunner
PV2 <name>, MG Ammo Bearer
SPC <name>, Designated Marksman
Section Four (Indirect Fire Support Section):
SSG <name>, Squad Leader
SPC <name>, Radio-Telephone Operator
SPC <name>, Combat Field Medic
SPC <name>, Designated Marksman
SGT <name>, Mortar Gunner
PFC <name>, Mortar Assistant Gunner
SPC <name>, Mortar Gunner
PFC <name>, Mortar Assistant Gunner
SPC <name>, Mortar Gunner
PFC <name>, Mortar Assistant Gunner
PV2 <name>, Mortar Ammo Bearer
Sniper Section:
SGT <name>, Spotter
SPC <name>, Sniper
PFC <name>, Flanker