OT: Alien invasion

[weswood]

Between the tv series "Fallen Skies" and reading a few books, primarily David Weber's "Out of the Dark", and Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar" series I've become fixated with aliens invading the world.

I've come up with a few ideas of my own if I were to write a book.

Mission: Subjugate mankind and exploit the Earth's resources, primarily precious and regular metals (iron, tin, copper etc.).

Aliens: Two basic races. I was sitting in the hot tub (with the heat turned off!) thinking a fast breeding, fast maturing race of foot soldiers would be perfect. It would save valuable cargo space in both deep sleep chambers and foods during a long space trip. I was thinking of there was some way to combine pig and human DNA, then I thought the old standard orc from AD&D would work perfect. Fast growing, fast breeding, not too bright, mean.

For the primary race I thought I'd stick with AD&D Drow elves. I wanted a race of long lived aliens who are mean.

And no, no magic, no swords. Well, maybe swords as sidearms....

The primary invasion tactics I'm not real sure of. Travel through space; park on the far side of the sun from earth to breed up the cannon fodder & scout out the earth.

My first thought was drop some nukes to EMP most of the earth to destroy communications & mess with the infrastructure, followed by Kinetic Energy Weapons on military bases & country capitals. Then drop the invasion forces.

But then I just finished reading Willian Forstchen's "One Second After", about a small town in North Virginia after the USA has been hit by nationwide EMP.
So I'm thinking maybe EMP the world, then wait two months or so and let the weaker humans die out some, and the stronger ones weaken up through starvation. That would have the effects of making the resistance easier on the drop forces and make the invaders look better when they offer food.

I've also thought about dropping in disguised as human sabatuers and spies in before the first strikes, to work behind the lines. And possibly some human alliances to fight once the invasion has started, ala Hernan Cortez.

Instead of taking on the world all at once, the invaders would establish a major foothold on each continent and concentrate on subjugating one ant a time.

I think I'm going to go with electro magnetic railguns for small arms, and probably heavier weapons.

And just to make it interesting, I'd make the U.S. have strict gun laws. Law abiding citizens would be able to own a shotgun with a barrel of 20" or more, and non-cartridge black powder weapons.

What do ya'll think? Sound interesting or just another stupid idea?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by weswood

Mission: Subjugate mankind and exploit the Earth's resources, primarily precious and regular metals (iron, tin, copper etc.).

If you are a species capable of crossing interstellar space why would you come all the way to another solar system and down into a gravity well to exploit mineral resources? The asteroid belt (and more than likely asteroid belts in many if not most solar systems) contain vast amounts of all kinds of minerals. If you are a major space faring people that's where you'd get the bulk of your resources, not from the surfaces of major planetary bodies.

You need to come up with something the aliens want that they can only get here. Maybe humans themselves are the resource the aliens want?

[weswood]

That's what I was thinking but I haven't been able to come up with a better reason.

Maybe the planet itself as an expansion to thier empire?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Targan

You need to come up with something the aliens want that they can only get here. Maybe humans themselves are the resource the aliens want?

Terrestrial life as food sources.

There is a one in four chance that the proteins would be edible to a extra terrestrial traveler.

Miners. Taking humans to be miners in belt colonies.

Collecting or harvesting specimens for inter galactic zoos.

Water.

[Targan]

Let me state first that I'm not trying to gainsay anybody's ideas or display how clever I am. I like Wes' and Army SGT's ideas and I'm just running a critical eye over them.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Terrestrial life as food sources. There is a one in four chance that the proteins would be edible to a extra terrestrial traveler.

Once again, the high technology of a species that can cross interstellar space makes this idea redundant. You're absolutely right about the proteins though. Maybe if the aliens were like those in the Predator films this could be a factor (the aliens have a racial imperative to hunt and devour other sentient species).

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Miners. Taking humans to be miners in belt colonies.

Collecting or harvesting specimens for inter galactic zoos.

I can totally dig these ideas. If genetic engineering was an area of technology the invading aliens weren't so good at maybe subjugating a slave species would be a valuable outcome for them.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Water.

Why? There are incredibly vast amounts of water in space that would be much easier to access than the water at the bottom of the Earth's gravity well. The Oort Cloud (where the comets come from) contains untold trillions of gigalitres of water. And frankly if you can cross interstellar space you can most likely manufacture water cheaply and efficiently from hydrogen and oxygen.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Living room - i.e. expansion of the Empire. Their home planets are overcrowded and they need room to expand.
Plus they get the benefit of a subjugated race to do their menial work for them and a planet full of resources.
Perhaps they even need the Earth for it's water resources, splitting water for hydrogen as a fuel. (Hmm, seems Targan has already evaluated this aspect)

Then again with the possibilities that there are some incredible amounts of wealth in the asteroids and uninhabited planets in just our solar system, perhaps all they need is an outpost for processing those resources before shipping them back home. The Earth becomes a factory planet because it has all the needed resources - slave labour.
Plus it could be an amusing holiday zone for them, hunting humans in the jungles and so on, you know, light entertainment for the aliens but deadly terror for us.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by weswood

So I'm thinking maybe EMP the world, then wait two months or so and let the weaker humans die out some, and the stronger ones weaken up through starvation. That would have the effects of making the resistance easier on the drop forces and make the invaders look better when they offer food.

I'd say EMP, wait two months, then EMP again just before the invasion to take out everything that had been repaired. If the initial EMP attack is made in such a way as to be mistaken as say a once in a thousand year solar flare (hey, they have interstellar travel, anything's possible) then humans in their stubborness aren't likely to overly harden their systems against a second round.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Targan

Let me state first that I'm not trying to gainsay anybody's ideas or display how clever I am. I like Wes' and Army SGT's ideas and I'm just running a critical eye over them.

I think it well established that the participants use each other as sounding boards more than gathering for a consensus. A bit of criticism is good for the ego. Keeps mine in check anyway.

Originally Posted by Targan

Once again, the high technology of a species that can cross interstellar space makes this idea redundant. You're absolutely right about the proteins though. Maybe if the aliens were like those in the Predator films this could be a factor (the aliens have a racial imperative to hunt and devour other sentient species).

This assumes that a closed loop biosphere requiring only nutrient input and energy input is possible at their level and economically feasible. Stopping along the way and harvesting biomass may be cheaper or consume less than carrying along a garden the size of the Ukraine.

Originally Posted by Targan

I can totally dig these ideas. If genetic engineering was an area of technology the invading aliens weren't so good at maybe subjugating a slave species would be a valuable outcome for them.

Maybe it is the sheer biodiversity of our world. Maybe they see everything on the earth as an exploitable resource. Kangaroo liver becomes a moisturizer, and the human hypothalamus is an aphrodisiac, and garden slugs are the new frozen treat.

Originally Posted by Targan

Why? There are incredibly vast amounts of water in space that would be much easier to access than the water at the bottom of the Earth's gravity well. The Oort Cloud (where the comets come from) contains untold trillions of gigalitres of water. And frankly if you can cross interstellar space you can most likely manufacture water cheaply and efficiently from hydrogen and oxygen.

We assume this. Maybe purifiying the water out of trillions or tons of gravel, primitive proteins and peptides, along with common radioactive elements and heavy metals makes it simpler to extend a 500km siphon into liquid water at the bottom of a gravity well.

[Targan]

The living room idea is good. The processing of resources would be done most efficiently outside the Earth's gravity well (unless the resources to be processed were sourced from the surface). The slave labour idea has some merit though. Maybe the aliens have some kind of ideological opposition to using robots?

When it comes to resources like hydrogen it all comes down to cost-benefit analysis. Space itself contains lots of hydrogen - its just spread very thinly. But with technology such as an electromagnetic scoop it can be harvested very efficiently. The Bussard ramjet is an excellent example of a theoretical spacecraft design that uses this concept for fuel and propulsion. The Red Dwarf is a Bussard ramjet spacecraft.

In any case if you are talking fuel for fusion reactors, helium-3 is the way to go, not hydrogen. Helium-3 isn't something you can efficiently mine on the surface of a planet such as earth, the best places to get it in our solar system are from the solar wind, from the regolith of zero-atmosphere bodies such as the moon, or from the atmosphere of gas giants.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by weswood

And just to make it interesting, I'd make the U.S. have strict gun laws. Law abiding citizens would be able to own a shotgun with a barrel of 20" or more, and non-cartridge black powder weapons.

Given that you'd be imposing 2+ months of Twilight War-like conditions on the survivors of the EMPs, I can't see why the survivors wouldn't scarfed up all the guns they could find anyway. This seems like a no-never-mind.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

The Red Dwarf is a Bussard ramjet spacecraft.

And the Starbugs are made from the same material as Barbie which explains why they never break apart no matter how terrible the crash - true story!

[Webstral]

This is a tough one. Alien invasion has enormous emotional and psychological appeal but a somewhat lesser basis in logic. However, I’ve often said that anyone can be a critic; so I’ll try to offer something supportive.

In human history what is possible and even practical often takes a back seat to psychology. Aliens capable of traveling across interstellar space could manufacture proteins under controlled conditions using sunlight and enclosed spaces made from asteroid materials. We could imagine, though, that the alien presence has one or a very few minds making the decisions. Perhaps the aliens are hive beings. Perhaps they are very few in number. Perhaps the decision-makers are of a rarefied caste, while the majority execute their assignments. With few decision-makers, the alien logic of acquiring resources for the cheapest investment in energy might give way to some sort of alternative thinking.

Years ago, I outlined a screenplay in response to the film version of “Starship Troopers”. In spirit of putting the bottom line up front, the bugs come to Earth to protect humanity from their bug brethren. The bugs are a hive species with an interstellar civilization over 250,000 years old. At some point in the recent past (around the start of the Agricultural Revolution), drones took over the formerly queen-run civilization and started to reshape things in their new vision. Part of the new vision was the extermination of all other sentient life within the boundaries of explored space. (Previously, planets with sentient or near-sentient life were made off-limits to bug development.) The bugs who arrive in Sol are part of a resistance movement in which queens still rule. Having seen the usurper bugs annihilate other sentient life, they have come to help humanity survive the inevitable usurper onslaught.

One of the questions that hangs over the while story is why. The engineers (the friendly bugs) arrive in Sol and swap a host of scientific knowledge and technology for ownership of Mars and a treaty on development of other resources in Sol. Why bother? Why not simply take Earth for themselves? The engineers show that the they have the biological technology to adapt to Earth’s microorganisms. No one can figure this one out. Towards the end of the story, as a usurper fleet approaches a semi-terraformed Mars, the queen herself reveals the answer: humanity may be the intelligence that fulfills God’s promise that good shall triumph over evil.

According to engineer theology, a Universe with laws of physics, matter, and energy yields organized patterns of matter and energy: atoms, stars, heavier atoms, dust, more stars, planets, and so on. A certain part of the organized matter and energy will yield life. Some examples of life will yield multicellular life. Some multicellular life will yield sentience. Some sentience will become transcendent. Some transcendence will reach the next stage in development, and the pattern will continue beyond the ability of the engineers to predict. Ultimately, a purposeful entity with knowledge and power spanning the Universe will emerge as a new God. New God will make decisions about starting a new Universe.

The catch is that none of the future developments are inevitable. Just as there is no guarantee that a given species will make the jump to the next level of development, there is no guarantee that any intentful entity will ever climb to the top of the pyramid. This is where good and evil come in, for the engineers. Good is the force that harnesses energies of all types in favor of orderliness. Evil is the force that diverts energies away from orderliness. Good is not freedom from stress or competition: indeed, the engineers recognize that stress and competition drive evolution and innovation. It’s complex, so I won’t go into it any further. For the engineers, goodness advances a species up the pyramid towards divinity—even as advancement changes a species into something else completely. The engineers accept that they don’t know enough about the process to figure out what it takes for a species at their level to become divine. However, since God created a Universe with many, many possibilities, She must have wanted natural selection to play its part in the formation of a new God. Here’s the tricky bit: if goodness matters, then the moral decisions made by intelligences capable of choosing between good and evil must play a part in God’s pattern. Therefore, those who would serve God’s intent for the Universe must make decisions for good. The broader each level of the pyramid leading to divinity, the greater the chance that the top of the pyramid will reach high enough for there to be a new God. Humanity broadens the mere sentience level of the pyramid; therefore, helping humanity survive the coming genocide is part of executing God’s intent for the Universe.

Phew.

One could imagine alien decisions being made based on factors other than pure logic. Heck, look at how we do things. Maybe the aliens who show up are refugees or criminals.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

And the Starbugs are made from the same material as Barbie which explains why they never break apart no matter how terrible the crash - true story!

You haven't seen my daughter's Barbies. I call them Civil War Survivors. Well over half are missing arms or legs.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Given that you'd be imposing 2+ months of Twilight War-like conditions on the survivors of the EMPs, I can't see why the survivors wouldn't scarfed up all the guns they could find anyway. This seems like a no-never-mind.

I was thinking that before I finished Forstchen's "One Second After" and primarily Weber's "Out of The Dark" where a couple of the main characters are gun store/range owners and had access to all kinds of weaponry, including a Barrett .50.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I think it well established that the participants use each other as sounding boards more than gathering for a consensus. A bit of criticism is good for the ego. Keeps mine in check anyway.

Man, that's a fact. My friends and peers are always telling me I'm one of the smartest guys they know, then I get on this board and the truth is revealed!

[manunancy]

A few thoughts about that :

* one major point is that the aliens at a minmum want to have a bipshere that's at least in a decent shape - henc nop major nuking or crashing a dino-killer comet or asteroïd into Earth.

* as far as motivation go, onenovel I read had a race of robotic sentiences evolved from some old probe which had a 'creed' bas on some old garbled lines of code form their remote ancestors who basicaly ordered them to 'find uses for things'. Which meant they experminented with slave labor and using human parts int themselves to see how they could use humans... Something along that line might work.

Another option to explain for a relative lack of ressource could be that said aliens are basically underfunded criminals who think the humans would make perfect novelty slave and their planet would offer plenty of exotic pets and foodustuffs to sell under the counter. The spacegoing equivalent of somali pirates mixed with sudanese horse-mounted raiders. They first gatheed amples to evaluate the market (UFO sigthings, abductions and cow mutilations) and now the don has decided it's time to take charge and really start the market.

Using dumb and fast-breeding goons would be both a way to save on the transport bil and help with keeping teh operation out of the glactic law enforcement's eye. Get a few gigatons of old surplus weaponry scheduled for recycling, a handfull of breeders and move all that into the solar systems would be easier than assembling an invasion force in a settled system. No nosy neighbours to call he cops.

Note : and since these gusy are basically criminals using dumb muscle, it offers a nice explanation for suboptimal planning and tactics : their weapon mix is what they can scroune from the recycling yard and they have little military experience, giving the locals a chance to fend off the thugs...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by weswood

You haven't seen my daughter's Barbies. I call them Civil War Survivors. Well over half are missing arms or legs.

True, dismembered they may be, but the individual components are indestructible!

[Targan]

Welcome to the forum manunancy! Perhaps you might like to tell us about yourself on the 'Introducing myself' thread: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2698

[95th Rifleman]

I like the falling skies rationale. Taking Huma children and converting them via some kind of process into either a slave-race or the alien race.

When you think about it, it's the prefect form of colonisation.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Webstral's post made me think of something else, something humans have been happy enough to do in the past to foreign cultures - religious conversion.
Perhaps the aliens are "invading" to convert the heathen humans to the true faith, if they don't convert willingly then they'll be forced to.
Maybe they made peaceful overtures to the world's governments and said "convert to our faith and be part of the wider universe". We responded with "No way" and they said, "Fine but now it's convert or die!"

[mikeo80]

This scenario is exactly what the teenaged, late night, creature feature watcher wants to see!!

I have been involved with a group that experimented with the idea of TMP being the result of Bruce Morrow seeing the aftermath of an Alien Invasion and the devistation that resulted.

The invasion was a mish mash of Heinlen's Bugs, Worldwars critters, and Independence Day. Of course, OUR critters would never use a computer operating system designed around Windows!!

I mean, come on, a computer virus??????

I also prescribe to the Carl Sagan hypothesis of extra-terestrial life.

1) We are it. Seems like a waste, but at this moment, we seem to be the only sentient (?) life form.

2) There are others, they are at the same level of tech we are.

3) There are others, they have warp drive, star drive, whatever. They have not gotten here yet. Space IS big. Really, Really BIG.

My personall favorite !!

4) There are others, they have warp drive, they have been here........




Wait for it.......




For obvious reasons, they decided to leave the children in the sandbox. Maybe they will grow up?????

My $0.02

Mike

[dragoon500ly]

[QUOTE=StainlessSteelCynic;38426]Living room - i.e. expansion of the Empire. Their home planets are overcrowded and they need room to expand.
Plus they get the benefit of a subjugated race to do their menial work for them and a planet full of resources.
Perhaps they even need the Earth for it's water resources, splitting water for hydrogen as a fuel. (Hmm, seems Targan has already evaluated this aspect)[QUOTE]

You could also add a second group of Aliens, fighting a war with Earth stuck in the middle and the strategic position of our solar system makes it vital for both sides to control and fight over.

[Rainbow Six]

Maybe they don't need a reason...they would just destroy for the sake of destroying, much like an intergalactic plague of locusts.

Or maybe the aliens might just see it as some form of pest control, much like we might fumigate a house to get rid of bugs.

[copeab]

I think District 9 and it's implied sequel would make for a quite logical alien invasion scenario (really more a rescue/revenge operation than invasion, though ...).

[Tombot]

Just saw the latest film from the crew of "Shaun o.t.Dead", which has an alien-invasion stopped by a suburban, london teenage-gang.
The main-acteur looks like a 15 year old version of denzel wahington (in a good way, he has charisma) and another good thing the film has - Mike Frost (although he doesnt show up to often, but its still cool)!

If you want a totally different approach to the topic; check it out, its a good one. (Love the brits for their movies, always original)

Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD0gm7dHKKc

[Sanjuro]

For alien motivations, how about they see our development as a future threat, and invade to try and destroy us before we develop the technology that would let us compete with them? If you want to give humanity a break, use Harry Turtledove's idea that between their recon and their assault, we developed faster than they expected and have higher tech than their forces expect... not as high as the aliens, but perhaps they were only expecting muzzle-loading firearms, or no aircraft, or no electronics...

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

For alien motivations, how about they see our development as a future threat, and invade to try and destroy us before we develop the technology that would let us compete with them? If you want to give humanity a break, use Harry Turtledove's idea that between their recon and their assault, we developed faster than they expected and have higher tech than their forces expect... not as high as the aliens, but perhaps they were only expecting muzzle-loading firearms, or no aircraft, or no electronics...

As an aside, this requires the aliens not have FTL drives or communications.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

For alien motivations, how about they see our development as a future threat, and invade to try and destroy us before we develop the technology that would let us compete with them? If you want to give humanity a break, use Harry Turtledove's idea that between their recon and their assault, we developed faster than they expected and have higher tech than their forces expect... not as high as the aliens, but perhaps they were only expecting muzzle-loading firearms, or no aircraft, or no electronics...

I was thinking about this last night. The aliens discovered humanity centuries ago and left probes/satelites to monitor our progress. Then in the early 40's with testing of atomic weapons, the satelites sent out a message to the home planet. 10 or 15 earth years since then for the message to reach, 5 years to assemble the invasion fleet, and the rest of the time to travel to earth. That way they would have a better idea of what we are capable of, and gearing thier equipment- tanks, apcs, aircraft, etc. to destroy us.

I'm thinking a psuedo medeviel fuedal matriarchal society, with the nobility in charge of descending areas of responsibility. The commoners would be the vehicle crewmen and some shock troop, but the majority of the infantry would be the sporks, led by commoners of proven ability, simuliar to knights.

[pmulcahy11b]

There is an episode of the new Science Channel show Curiosity which in my mind gives a plausible reason for aliens to invade earth and wipe out humans: for whatever reason, they want our planet, with the biosphere intact, so they can live on it.

They wouldn't want the Earth to strip it of resources -- for a technological civilization that can travel the stars, resources can be found a-plenty in any asteroid belt or on moons, and water is easy to find and even make. Intact biospheres of the type that Earth has aren't as common by a long shot.

So, why have there been scattered reports of alien abductions and UFOs? They need test subjects and air samples. They've probably been taking animals, particularly birds, as well.

First, they need to take away from us the one thing we need and the rest of the biosphere doesn't: technology. The show had the example of a rain of nanobots -- trillions of them -- which produced EMP effects. The nanobots are only of the molecular size. Sort of shut off the Earth like a light switch.

Then, the reason for abductions and air samples and test subjects: the aliens would engineer diseases targeted only at humans, using animals as carriers (more reliable than simply spraying the atmosphere with disease). If we figure out a cure for one disease, they have many more standing by.

The show gave some ideas on how we could stop the aliens, centered around asymmetric warfare and making their victory too expensive (sort of like what the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese did to us), but it gave the strong impression that we really didn't stand a chance against an alien invasion.

[Matt W]

IMHO, the best alien invasion scenario was a Doctor Who invention: the "Sea Devils" and the "Silurians". These were basically intelligent, bipedal dinosaurs whose (highly-advanced) civilization foresaw the impact of the big meteorite that killed off all the other dinosaurs. A few isolated colonies survived by using a form of suspended animation (in huge bases buried under old rock or in the oceans). Of course (like the Morrow Project) their "wake-up" was delayed longer than they expected. But now they're back - and rather annoyed to find their planet full of vaguely intelligent primates