OT: Saudi Crown Prince Sultan is dead

[Schone23666]

Apparently he died while he was here in the U.S.

http://news.yahoo.com/tv-saudi-crown...052050483.html

Not sure what it means...that and everyone's already heard that Khaddafi is dead and gone. Though actually in Khaddafi's case, he's on display in a meat freezer last I heard, seems he's suffered a fate not so dissimilar to that of Mussolini.

Not sure what all this means, will have to see how it all plays out I guess...

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Not sure what all this means, will have to see how it all plays out I guess...

I doubt it will mean much at all outside Saudi Arabia. Real politic will continue as normal. As in, the US is ideologically opposed to non-democratic, fundamentalist regimes but is more than happy to look the other way if a given regime is providing a much-needed commodity (in this case, oil). Prince Nayef will continue to sell the US oil. On it goes.

I'm not really singling out the US, mind you. My own country plays a similar sort of game with China. On the one hand we are critical of exactly the sort of government and human rights record the Chinese have, on the other hand we owe much of our current economic prosperity to China's demand for our raw materials so our government has very little to say about the appalling ways in which China conducts itself.

The world continues to turn, and I continue to feel slightly dirty about it all.

[HorseSoldier]

That is pretty much the way of it.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Not sure what all this means, will have to see how it all plays out I guess...

Apparently it means that Prince Nayef will likely take his place.

Nayef is a conservative and a Wahhabist. He doesn't support women being aloud to vote, hold elective office, or any of the secular based actions that would bring other human rights to regular Saudis. Basically, he is an asshole.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Apparently it means that Prince Nayef will likely take his place.

Nayef is a conservative and a Wahhabist. He doesn't support women being aloud to vote, hold elective office, or any of the secular based actions that would bring other human rights to regular Saudis. Basically, he is an asshole.

To be fair, so far he has also shown that he believes the only good extremist - or Iranian - is a dead one, so he has at least that much going for him.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

To be fair, so far he has also shown that he believes the only good extremist - or Iranian - is a dead one, so he has at least that much going for him.

Because they are just as much a threat to him than to anyone else though - IMO.

[Panther Al]

True enough, but in that part of the world? I can accept that. Especially as he does fall in the pro-US camp as well from what I have read. Conservative as all hell yes, but aware that changes have to be made. Be interesting to see how he balances the two.

[Raellus]

That's something that's always struck me as hypocritical of U.S. foreign policy regarding totalitarian dictatorships-

As long as its not an anti-U.S. (or Socialist/Communist/Marxist/Maoist) regime, it's OK by us. It doesn't matter how undemocratic or brutal a regime is, as long as its in our camp. The current government in Yemen is a pretty good example, as was the Mubarek regime in Egypt up until quite recently.

Heaven forbid a country actually democratically elects a government that is not pro-U.S./capitalist... they used to end up like Allende in Chile. I think we've gotten a little less hypocritical in the last quarter century, but not by much.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Raellus

That's something that's always struck me as hypocritical of U.S. foreign policy regarding totalitarian dictatorships-

As long as its not an anti-U.S. (or Socialist/Communist/Marxist/Maoist) regime, it's OK by us. It doesn't matter how undemocratic or brutal a regime is, as long as its in our camp. The current government in Yemen is a pretty good example, as was the Mubarek regime in Egypt up until quite recently.

Heaven forbid a country actually democratically elects a government that is not pro-U.S./capitalist... they used to end up like Allende in Chile. I think we've gotten a little less hypocritical in the last quarter century, but not by much.

It's called "Realpolitik" Raellus, and you are right, to an extent at least. Though at the risk of sounding defensive, it's unfortunately a game that just about EVERY country that has some political interest outside it's borders plays, and I honestly don't see anyone in the current crop of the United Nations winning this particular moral argument.

That, and some of the alternatives to the dictatorships the U.S. backed, now and then, werent' necessarily the friendliest sort either...

[Webstral]

It will be interesting to see how the Wahabbists play their cards over the next five years. They have been losing their patience with the Sauds for a while. I suspect that sooner or later they will make a bid to take Saudi Arabia, though I can't predict the means. That will be an interesting program.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

It's called "Realpolitik" Raellus, and you are right, to an extent at least. Though at the risk of sounding defensive, it's unfortunately a game that just about EVERY country that has some political interest outside it's borders plays, and I honestly don't see anyone in the current crop of the United Nations winning this particular moral argument.

That, and some of the alternatives to the dictatorships the U.S. backed, now and then, werent' necessarily the friendliest sort either...

Yeah, we Brits do the same thing.

We supply half the middle east with things that go boom (courtesy of BAE), the governemnt was in a sticky wicket when the Bahrainians where using kit we sold them to put down their protestors.

Politics is shitty, we help put down Gaddafi but ignore Syria.