LOL and they even have a National Geographic special on them

[Cdnwolf]

http://doomsday-preppers.com/

[weswood]

I bet those poor souls in the NorthEast wish they had some food and potable water stashed. And I know there's a couple members of this board have over 1,000 rounds of ammo for thier weapons.

I guess the Boy Scouts are all f@#&ked up with that "Be Prepared" motto.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by weswood

I bet those poor souls in the NorthEast wish they had some food and potable water stashed. And I know there's a couple members of this board have over 1,000 rounds of ammo for thier weapons.

I guess the Boy Scouts are all f@#&ked up with that "Be Prepared" motto.

The "preppers" may strike some as odd....

I have 60 days food and water ready to go. I also have a gas grill with two tanks of propane, two kerosene heaters with 10+ gallons of kerosene ready.

For my rifle, I have 2000+ rounds, the shotgun has 400+.... and I just scored some good prices on slug rounds for the shotgun.

Does this make me a prepper?? Maybe...

I would like to increase this to 90 days as time and money allow. I have to insure that the food is being rotated properly. I try to buy with as long a lead time as possible. Not to mention the need to bring the food into the house with some security. I typically shop at night so that the "nosey neighbor" does not see exactly what IS in my house.

So write me up as a lunatic....My wife and I would survive the inland part of Sandy with some discomfort sure...but we would stay warm, fed and safe.

Living here in Fayetteville, NC, I do not have to worry too much about a direct hit from a hurricane. THe remnants woudl be just ugly enough, thank you very much.

My $0.02

Mike

[Panther Al]

I look at it like this:

There is being prepared, and then there is... well, what you see on those shows.

Having a stash of food, water, and so on is a good thing. Having a plan. Prepping for likely scenarios. All good, all important - something everyone should at least have put some thought into.

From what I saw on those shows is what I call the lunatic fringe of the whole concept. They take a good idea, and let their paranoid fantasies run wild - to some degree or another.

Take one I saw while flipping through the channels.

Guy, in a reasonably decent-ish ghillie suit, doing an OP looking to see if baddies are approaching.

OK, good idea.

Done nuts: On a commercially available radio, on an open freq using a call sign (Really bad in my opinion) of Crows Nest. OK, I'm the baddie. I hear this, and hrm.... why, I think he might be a tree. Oh wait: There is one: no cover to it, and a huge lump hanging off of the side. I wonder what that can be....

And, Lets cross this river, so everyone in bright boat, cover up in ghillie suits, and paddle *slowly* across it. Hrm, can't see what might go wrong with that...

Its that level of paranoid fantasy EOTW wet dreams that they show that makes me just want to pound my head onto my desk.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Take one I saw while flipping through the channels.

Guy, in a reasonably decent-ish ghillie suit, doing an OP looking to see if baddies are approaching.

OK, good idea.

Done nuts: On a commercially available radio, on an open freq using a call sign (Really bad in my opinion) of Crows Nest. OK, I'm the baddie. I hear this, and hrm.... why, I think he might be a tree. Oh wait: There is one: no cover to it, and a huge lump hanging off of the side. I wonder what that can be....

And, Lets cross this river, so everyone in bright boat, cover up in ghillie suits, and paddle *slowly* across it. Hrm, can't see what might go wrong with that...

Its that level of paranoid fantasy EOTW wet dreams that they show that makes me just want to pound my head onto my desk.

Yeah, I noticed that myself. Not only the call sign "Crows Nest" but what if he had to leave his op in a hurry? Jump?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I live in Florida. By definition I have to be a Doomsday Prepper.

I talked to the wife about this last week; we have two simple plans.

1 - Shelter at home for a cat 1-2. Food, water, generator, etc. We've started restocking our pantry just this week.

2 - Anything stronger that's going to hit us dead on, like a Katrina or Andrew...we've got 2-3 days notice. Rent a small uhaul truck, in go the valuables (basically everything except heavy furniture). Food, water and other sundries go in the truck, we convoy the hell out of this state to wherever that thing's cone isn't aimed.

I don't think that's crazy, I don't think that's paranoid. Anyone who does can feel free to have a gander at footage from Atlantic City, Long Island, lower Manhattan from a few weeks ago.

[HorseSoldier]

Agreed on their being a not so fine line between prudence and nuttiness. I think even prudent measures sometimes alarm people because talking to someone about being prepared for natural disaster forces people to think about being at risk and possibly dying. Most people in the developed world have the luxury of not thinking about that sort of thing if they don't want to.

Here in Alaska we don't have hurricanes, but risks of earthquakes and volcanic activity, plus more mundane risks of power outages or being stuck by severe weather is a realistic concern. I am definitely not ready for the end of the world/zombie defense/subarctic remake of the Road Warrior, but do keep a couple weeks food on hand for people and pets as well as the related stuff you'd want to have if the power went out. Also keep kits in the cars with with sleeping bags, blankets, freeze-safe food and such in the event of being stranded somewhere by weather.

[Snake Eyes]

Dude, yeah - there's common sense, then there's being prepared, then there's preppers, then waaay out here on the fringe ---> there's the wingnuts on that NatGeo show.

[Graebarde]

Those folks on the NG show are dumb if nothing else for allowing theirselves to even be ON the program. Wonder how much they got paid? Was it worth it?

As for being prepared, well when I was growing up we always had at least three months food on hand. In the fall of course we had almost 18 months some years, depending on the yields that year. Was that paranoid? It was called makeing it to the next harvest, a way of life. I had at one time over a years food on hand, and was glad for it when I had to eat out of it for over six months when things went south.

Is it paranoid to buy insurance? Preperations are insurance. Of course like paper insurance, preperations are NO guarantee you'll survive. And as those people living on the beachs (we have our share of those fools here on the Gulf Coast too) that think the government should bail their ass out from a storm.. ever read the insurance policy where there's the 'Act of God and War' clause. Duh???? And flood insurance is ONLY available from the Feds, which a LOT of home owners don't realize, especially in areas that are 'not flood zones'.

Another thing about preperations is if you don't know how to use them what good are they? So they store 500 pounds of wheat, but nobody has the knowledge on what to do with it? (has a sister-in-law like that back in the 80's) Or don't have the mill to make flour with it? (same sister in law, and another friend that had 'over looked' it. How are you going to make bread if you don't have the necessary oven? Practical knowledge gained by experience and practice.

Most people that scoff at people who prepare for the worst are the first ones to come calling when SHTF crying the preper is 'hording' and they should have a share. Preparing is NOT hording!!! Hording is going out AFTER the crisis starts and buying up the items. And IF I buy if before hand, why should I give it to you that did not have the forethought to prepare? Now that is NOT to say I would not share with a stranger, but it would be selective charity at best. Attitude counts a LOT there, and a willingness of the receiver to help if needed.

Nuff siad.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

More and more people are sitting back and patiently waiting for "the Government" to come and fix the problem(s) after a disaster - or taking from people who were prepared. Look at Katrina. Look at Sandy. The cries go up "Where is <ORGANIZATION>?! We need <THINGS>!"

As Graebarde said, it isn't paranoid to have insurance, and that's just what "preparing" is. You're buying your own insurance.

I shudder to think what would happen, here, in my state in the event of an Andrew-level hurricane strike on Central Florida. That is, I shudder to think what would happen to me and mine if word got out that we were prepared, and the grasshoppers who were without suddenly realized we were eating well and bathing in hot water regularly. Brr.

Sorry, that's borderline political so I'll leave off now.

[Raellus]

I think there's a preparedness continuum. It's smart to be prepared for plausible scenarios. It's never a bad idea to have some extra quantities of the basic survival necessities just in case. There's lots of bad things (depending somewhat on where you live) that could very likely happen someday- storms, earthquakes, wildfires, power outages, etc.

On the other hand, there are folks out there- the "doomsday preppers", if you will- who actually seem to be hoping for something disastrous to happen. These folks scare me a bit. They're prepping for things that will most likely never happen-zombies, U.N. takeover of the U.S., Mexican invasion, etc. They've lost touch with reality and that, IMHO, is very dangerous.

In some ways, they are like the various waves of millenial cultists who pop up before every new age. In a lot of cases, when the end doesn't come as planned, they take measures to make it happen.

[Tegyrius]

The growth of the whole zombie prepping phenomenon makes me giggle because I remember when it started up as a metaphor for specific other hazards. Now we have a whole generation of folks who are taking it (way too) literally.

Also, if I did have massively extensive preps at home, there's no way I'd advertise them to all my relatives and neighbors by displaying them on national television. Just sayin'.

- C.

[dragoon500ly]

Not to mention how well armed you are and all of those lovely photos of your little hideout.

"Loose Lips Sink Ships!"

[Neal5x5]

A lot of the preppers are over the edge, like the guy who figured out a way to drink his own purified urine. Yes, it can be done but....Oh dear lord....

Just last night I was looking at purchasing a year's supply of basic grains in long-lasting containers. The biggest obstacle was not so much the price, but as Graebarde pointed out, I don't know what to do with the damn stuff. Guess I'd better look into a hand-cranked grinder and a cookbook first.

[The Rifleman]

I had the oppertunity to talk to survivors of SHTF. I did some time in Croatia and Macedonia training with their armies and they told me about how one day they had a normal life and the next there is a war, looting, death squads. In Kuwait, I met some dam fine resturant owners that told me about the raping, looting and killing when the Iraqis arrived. In Iraq, people told me about civil war, their society and economy collapsing under sanctions and militias. Afghanistan just never seemed to have any real social order above the community or maybe city government.

Where I'm going with this is that I met people who lived this crap and it scared the hell out of me! Reading over what others here have, I'd say that I'm quite well stocked for both short term, long term and indefinately situations. I am glad to see that others are thinking about this. More people thinking this way means fewer people sucking off the system or turning to looting.

Some great points were made about food and investing money. I hate to waste both. Some good tips that I can give you to save money and build your supply base:

Going to the store and buying a couple extra cans of food is good. Going to Mountain House or Alpine Air and buying #10 cans is better. I actually have priced them out and found that if I buy enough at a time, I get free shipping. Augustion farms also will toss you in some free soups or a 20lb bag of rice. Also, I only buy items that I actually eat. I'm slowly rotating through items with a shelf life of 20 years.

Also, I got into canning. I mostly can things out of the garden, but I also found that the farmer's market sells things a lot cheaper than the store at the end of the season. By putting it into my old mason jars, I'm saving $$$ and instead of a can of beans from Price Chopper that is good til 2014, I have my mason jar thats good til 2017 and 1/2 the cost.

Rice is dirt cheap and it fills the belly. It also is provides carbs needed for hard work such as fighting, farming, running or whatever. As long as it stays dry, it will last for years. I currently have 200 lbs on hand. Unlike most of my other ventures, I know I can never rotate that stock fast enough. I don't have the shelf life of my #10 cans. So I keep it dated and when it hits year 4 I will be bringing it to my local foodshelf and writing it off as a tax deduction.

Overall, I would say that I can feed myself and 9 other family members for 6 months. They are aware of my practices and they each have their own stocks as well, so we probably would be closer to 9 months or a years worth of food for a short term emergency. This doesn't include plans and supplies for water, light, defense, medical emergency, food growing and so on.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by The Rifleman

I had the oppertunity to talk to survivors of SHTF. I did some time in Croatia and Macedonia training with their armies and they told me about how one day they had a normal life and the next there is a war, looting, death squads. In Kuwait, I met some dam fine resturant owners that told me about the raping, looting and killing when the Iraqis arrived. In Iraq, people told me about civil war, their society and economy collapsing under sanctions and militias. Afghanistan just never seemed to have any real social order above the community or maybe city government.

I understand the point that you're trying to make but, realistically, what are the chances of any of that happening here in the U.S. anytime soon? It's certainly possible, but is it really plausible?

I kind of get it. I kind of like the idea of a simpler life where modern "first world" problems like the daily 9-to-5 grind, and paying the bills, and taking the kids to little league are gone and everyday survival is the priority. There's a certain liberation that goes along with throwing off the shackles of civilization. That's why I play T2K. Some people, however, choose to create big scary boogiemen in their heads and then stockpile stuff for that inevitable day when the boogieman comes for them. What happens when they get tired of waiting? You remember the Sarin attacks in the Tokyo subway a decade or so ago? I think that most casual preppers approach it as a sort of fun hobby, but the ones that take it really seriously because they truly believe that the apocalypse is on its way soon, they're the ones that frighten me.

I've wondered about the appeal of doomsday prepping and I think it's an extreme form of escapism. People long for simpler times. Some people are really hoping that the government collapses and the power goes out. When it happens, they won't be common wage slaves anymore- they'll be free, independent, tough survivors, and everybody else will look at them with envy and admiration. It's a fantasy. For most, it's harmless. I worry about the people that decide to precipitate the apocalypse because they're tired of waiting around for it to happen.

As for zombies, I picked up Max Brooks' Zombie Survival Manual when it first came out, because it appealed to my sense of humor. I'll admit, after I read it, I would daydream about surviving in a zombie-infested world- it was all in fun. Ten years later, pop culture is lousy with zombies (books, movies, TV, video games). It's gotten silly. There are actually a not insubstantial number of people here in the U.S. that are preparing for a real zombie uprising. A couple of companies actually market and sell anti-zombie ammunition! Is this amusing or alarming? I think it depends. For those of us who have a firm grasp on reality, it's the former; considering those people who don't, it's the latter.

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I understand the point that you're trying to make but, realistically, what are the chances of any of that happening here in the U.S. anytime soon? It's certainly possible, but is it really plausible?

I kind of get it. I kind of like the idea of a simpler life where modern "first world" problems like the daily 9-to-5 grind, and paying the bills, and taking the kids to little league are gone and everyday survival is the priority. There's a certain liberation that goes along with throwing off the shackles of civilization. That's why I play T2K. Some people, however, choose to create big scary boogiemen in their heads and then stockpile stuff for that inevitable day when the boogieman comes for them. What happens when they get tired of waiting? You remember the Sarin attacks in the Tokyo subway a decade or so ago? I think that most casual preppers approach it as a sort of fun hobby, but the ones that take it really seriously because they truly believe that the apocalypse is on its way soon, they're the ones that frighten me.

I've wondered about the appeal of doomsday prepping and I think it's an extreme form of escapism. People long for simpler times. Some people are really hoping that the government collapses and the power goes out. When it happens, they won't be common wage slaves anymore- they'll be free, independent, tough survivors, and everybody else will look at them with envy and admiration. It's a fantasy. For most, it's harmless. I worry about the people that decide to precipitate the apocalypse because they're tired of waiting around for it to happen.

As for zombies, I picked up Max Brooks' Zombie Survival Manual when it first came out, because it appealed to my sense of humor. I'll admit, after I read it, I would daydream about surviving in a zombie-infested world- it was all in fun. Ten years later, pop culture is lousy with zombies (books, movies, TV, video games). It's gotten silly. There are actually a not insubstantial number of people here in the U.S. that are preparing for a real zombie uprising. A couple of companies actually market and sell anti-zombie ammunition! Is this amusing or alarming? I think it depends. For those of us who have a firm grasp on reality, it's the former; considering those people who don't, it's the latter.

All valued things that you say. The US really falling into anarchy like Iraq or Croatia? Maybe. I saw on the news this morning that 160,000 people in 10 states are asking for succession. Voter fraud is rampant. Fiscal cliff coming. To me, those area all valid concerns. If I can be prepared for them, at no major expense to myself, then great.

Other things like zombies, mayan calanders, colliding planets, are just time wasters. Have you seen the real information coming out of New York? The looting and fighting has been pretty bad. They've taken to stationing cops at gas stations. That is no where near the end of the world, but when hurricane Irene and Hurricane sandy came through where I live I just shrugged my shoulders and topped off the tanks in both vehicles. It was nice to be able to sleep through the rain with no fear of anything.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by The Rifleman

All valued things that you say. The US really falling into anarchy like Iraq or Croatia? Maybe. I saw on the news this morning that 160,000 people in 10 states are asking for succession. Voter fraud is rampant. Fiscal cliff coming. To me, those area all valid concerns. If I can be prepared for them, at no major expense to myself, then great.

I don't want to be dismissive of your fears, and I agree that preparation usually can't hurt, but is any of the above likely to result in a breakdown of civilization? It's possible, but I don't think it's likely. At least, I sure hope it's not. If it is, I guess it'll be guys like me crawling on our hands and knees to guys like you, begging for help.

What I don't want to see is all of this doom-and-gloom becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy- like Charles Manson trying to bring about "Helter Skelter", or the Om Shin Rikio cultists trying to kickstart armageddon with Sarin attacks on the Tokyo subway. That sort of thing is a much bigger threat, IMHO, to American society, than any socialist takeover or foreign invasion. I think the polarization in American politics could lead to social conflicts (Rome's Social Wars being a precedent)- if we don't get over all the finger pointing and inflamatory rhetoric, perhaps there will be a sectional/class split in American. But, this is a worst-case scenario and it can be prevented, if we work towards that end. But if we believe it's inevitable, and act that way, chances are good that it will happen.

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Raellus

What I don't want to see is all of this doom-and-gloom becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy

That is also a valid fear of mine. An economic collaspse is an example. If you think about it, there is no need. There is plenty of food and plenty of work to go around, yet because we just don't have a good system to organize it, the premise is that it will collapse all for no good darn reason (as in Merc 2000).

The danger to all of these things comes back to one source, people. My life experience taught me to trust little. People disappoint alot and have the ability to do outright evil things to each other.

Having a few extra things around the house to preclude that would be a good idea. I would not want to be at the mercy of others in time of need.

[weswood]

Ya'll are all nuts. Econmic collapse? Seccession? Civil unrest and anarchy? Better happen in a hurry, Dec 21st is just over a month away and we're all going to die anyway and the dinosaurs will come back.

(Being sarcastic here if no one picked up on that. Economy is a very valid concern IMO. Major hurricanes & storms are always good to be ready for, especially here on the Gulf Coast. And we've all seen the looting that comes after such disasters.)

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by weswood

Ya'll are all nuts. Econmic collapse? Seccession? Civil unrest and anarchy? Better happen in a hurry, Dec 21st is just over a month away and we're all going to die anyway and the dinosaurs will come back.

(Being sarcastic here if no one picked up on that. Economy is a very valid concern IMO. Major hurricanes & storms are always good to be ready for, especially here on the Gulf Coast. And we've all seen the looting that comes after such disasters.)

How can you be worried about mayans when your state is in the middle of secceding from the Union again????

[weswood]

Originally Posted by The Rifleman

How can you be worried about mayans when your state is in the middle of secceding from the Union again????

That's not a worry, that's a fantasy.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

http://doomsday-preppers.com/

For grins and giggles, I went to the site just to see what was happening on the other side of the loony bin.

As I scrolled through, I saw the title "Doomsday Bunkers". So I said to myself, "Self, what the heck, see what is there...."

AS soon as I clicked on that link, my anti-virus lit up like a Christmas tree....

So I thought y'all might take this warning as you see fit....

Not only are the loonies out there...they have booby traps for those of us just wandering through....

My $0.02

Mike

[Legbreaker]

The simplest, easiest, and most effective preparation? Emigrate to a more stable country before the collapse.
What, you think that everywhere is falling apart? Take a good look at Australia - it's not pretty, but we're doing a HELL of a LOT better than most places around the globe.

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The simplest, easiest, and most effective preparation? Emigrate to a more stable country before the collapse.
What, you think that everywhere is falling apart? Take a good look at Australia - it's not pretty, but we're doing a HELL of a LOT better than most places around the globe.

If it weren't for the fact that I would be forced to leave my firearms collection behind, I think I'd like to be an Australian tommorrow...

[Legbreaker]

Where there's a will....

[headquarters]

I guess different people read differnt things into this.

Some feel that even mentioning that food and ammo etc is held in quantity in case something bad should happen is a certain sign of coockyness and probably an unsavoury ethical and political stance.

Some people feel that those who neglect to do so are irresponsible etc.

Most goverments actually acknowldge the need for private citizens to have some supplies at hand for "a limited discontinuance of services" and actually inform the public of this on various websites. Keeping food and stuff on hand isnt such a bad idea according to this.

The economy in the West is a precarious thing in these times. There is the specialization and the just in time concepts that mean the system isnt as robust as it could be. Weather, wars, economic trouble - it can all affect the system. Its not geared to be bomb proof - its geared for profit. Then again profit means growth meaning a largere capacity etcetc.

I wouldnt say people who actively prepare for the worst have it wrong -nor would I criticize people who are happy go lucky with one can of beans and some Champagne in their pantry for being irresponsible. I would rather examine WHY they choose this or that.

The end of the world is possible - and at a point some 5 billion years into the future its inevitable due to our Sun etc etc . But it is not plausible that society would slide into anarchy in a brief period of time in my humble opinion. Neither pandemics,supervolcanos,civil wars, economic collapse, climatic anomalies or sudden outbursts of anarchy that cripple society long term have any great likelyhood of striking most any country in the western world. It could happen locally or for a short time period I guess.

As someone said - some "preppers" might feel that the end of the world means a welcome escape from the drudgery of everyday life. In my opinion these people have got it oh so wrong. ( No one will admit to such folly - but any and all who read this and know that they fantasize about this - you know who you are!! )

On the other hand - having NOTHING to live on if there should happen to be a problem of sorts - just because you have decided that there is no need - ever - is getting it wrong too in my humble opinion.

I will not get into zobies and aliens and related phenomena. Everybody who know just a little about this know that this problem will occur almost exclusively in the US and possible a little bit in ethe UK. ( Yes - look at the current material on the subject. It is all set in these countries).

In conclusion - having 10 tons of wheat could mean that you are into wheat. But having it so that you will be the most powerful man in the town after the collapse of society is problematic. As for hoarding guns and ammo - I guess they wil be useful when you have to kill all those hungry men, women and children who will be coming for your wheat.

All in my huimble opinion.

[Neal5x5]

I grew up in northern Utah in the 1980s, and yes, Mormons believe in preparedness but some of these people were hardcore doomsday preppers. One friend's family didn't have the usual mound of food storage, but they did have an impressive collection of firearms. I asked him about that and he said that when the "fit hit the shan" they'd just use the firearms to "trade up".

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Neal5x5

I grew up in northern Utah in the 1980s, and yes, Mormons believe in preparedness but some of these people were hardcore doomsday preppers. One friend's family didn't have the usual mound of food storage, but they did have an impressive collection of firearms. I asked him about that and he said that when the "fit hit the shan" they'd just use the firearms to "trade up".

Lets look at that idea in terms of a military operation. "trading up" would be classified as a raid, or an assualt if the raid were on a fortified structure or a place with a fence and strongpoints. Military units are judged on Firepower, Mobility, Communications, and Leadership.

Firepower - Every family out there has got some sort of rifle. Many have AR15s and more have hunting rifles with scopes (lets not forget that the greatest US sniper was using a winchester M70 hunting rifle and greatest infantry was using a .30-06 bolt action lee enfield or springfield. Assuming that this collection of firearms includes and equally impressive number of magazines and ammuniton as well as people to use them, they may have an edge in firepower. The problem is that if they go raiding, they won't know what the other side has until they engage them.

Mobility - Just having a large amount of guns and ammo does you know good if you can't employ them. I'm not just talking about hitting what your aiming at. Moving means that you need to know how to supress a target, what good fields of fire are. You have to know how to isolate one side of a building so you can move to it, how to breach windows and doors when the are unexpectly locked, barracaded so on. Also, the attacker to defender ratio should be 3 to 1. Also, the attacker tends to take casualties, so if you have 9 guys, lose 2 in one fight, it means the next house you aren't going to be able to lay the same base of fire or have the same punch in your assualt element. Trying to take one house with one squared away former infantryman could result in a disaster. If he kills one in the group and wounds two or three you're all done. Lets not forget that if it gets this bad, there are no hospitals and "medevac" waiting to swoop in to get you to a doctor. Wounds are probably going to be fatal. In this sort of setting, the defender, behind cover, has a big advantage over the attacker. Also, there is no replacement system, so once the group loses memembers it likely isn't going to get fresh recruits.

Communication - Has this group practiced? Do they have their battle drills down? Do they know hand/arm signals, the ability to lift/shift fire on signal? Do they have radios and have them practiced employing them? Communication in battle is the first thing to go, and if you are on a complex mission like a raid, losing communication leads to time wasted and time wasted under fire leads to casualties.

Leadership - There are many fine leaders in these forums. Many of us are military veterans. I can see from the unit crests, information in the posts and comments that there are crusty NCOs that I would glady have in my company. Do the leaders in this group have the guts to face the losses and to motivate the survivors to continue? In 2005, my cavalry regiment took 18 killed and about triple that wounded. It wasn't recieved well, to say the least. Imagine how that would impact if it were family memebers being lost. Leaders have to be capable of organizing logistics, planning operations, making fast and timely decisions. In a pressure situtation with low food, little sleep, its a nightmare like ranger school or being at NTC. I know first hand that times like this are when even good leaders are near their limits.

I'm not saying in any way that you're a bad guy Neal. Please don't take my post the wrong way. If things were bad enough, I may find myself needing to patrol to protect my fields, my home, my family whatever. Just on a military priciple raiding for food is a dangerous proposition. Anyone else have thoughts on the strategy of small groups raiding fortified positions or homes?

[Raellus]

Although the apocalypse might seem like a lot of fun- no boring nine-to-five, no cash economy, camping out, getting to shoot stuff (it's a live-action version of Fallout!)- it would get really old really fast (no movies, no internet, no restaurants, constantly trying to avoid the crazies, etc.). I'm not sure that preppers realize this.

But it some ways, prepping is a rejection of modern society. Any time there is a major social change, like the industrial revolution for example, you will see utopian movements spring up. In U.S. history, the market revolution of the early 1800s led to a wave of groups (Mormons, Shakers, socialist communes) who "coped" with the social and economic changes of their day and age by attempting to completely withdraw from the rest of society. A lot of modern preppers seem to be people who can't handle the changes in modern society and the economy. Listening to preppers, this becomes pretty clear- they don't trust the power grid, they don't trust the government, they don't trust their new neighbors. In extreme cases, it's a behavioral manifestation of paranoia.