Question to those who know the Bradley.

[kato13]

thefusilier 05-08-2008, 06:14 AM Hi,


Anyone want to give an opinion of storage in the back of an M2 Bradley.


At the moment its carrying 3 crew and 5 dismounts and the following...

2x Box MRE (10 each)

M72 LAW x 4

M60 MMG

5 x 105belted x .50SLAP

5 x 105belted x .50BMG

12 x 100belt x7.62mmN

1 cases 5.45mmB

1 cases 5.65mmN

1 cases of 7.62mmS

1 cases of 7.62mmL

1 case 7.62mmN

WP grenades x 16

Claymores x 6


Full ammo for 25mm.


Question - Can 4 additional cases of 25mm API also fit in there? By the book its 400kgs (132 rounds). I'm thinking more about space than actual weight.

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kcdusk 05-09-2008, 06:31 AM Its one of those arguments. How do you ref space v weight, such as in this question??? At least using weight you have some uniform measure, even if its not always a one for one thing.


Me, i'd roll a die.


D6

1-3 = 1 case fits

4-5 = 2 cases

6 = 3 cases


As a Ref there is no way you allow all 4 cases to fit :-)


The randomness of it reflects how well the PCs "pack" the bradley, like have they made the most of the space? You dont want it too cramped anyway in a vehicle, i know what its like watching the wife pack her side of the car when we travel, i get claustrophobic just watching her!


I understand my views may be biased in this case fusilier.

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Targan 05-09-2008, 06:36 AM What is wrong with carrying some or all of the cases as external cargo?

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kato13 05-09-2008, 06:56 AM I am working on a volume/weight database.


Here are some potentially useful cubic feet numbers


M2A1 Metal Container 66mm grenade (4 grenades) 0.318

Javelin Launcher ATGM 2.5

Javelin Rockets ATGM Missle 1.5

M3 Carl Gustav 84mm Rocket launcher 3

Plastic Duplex Container 84mm (2 round cap) 1.3

PA 125 Metal Container 25mm (30 round cap) 0.63

PA-120 Ammunition Container 32x40mm (LV) Rounds Metal Can 0.7

M548 Ammunition Container 48x40mm (HV) Rounds Metal Can 1.057

M2HB Barrel Bag 1

M2A1 Metal Container .50 cal (100 Round Cap) 0.3

M2A1 Metal Container 12 Gauge (160 round Cap) 0.318

Medium Tripod M240 1

M19A1 Metal Container 7.62mm (250 round cap) 0.19375

M249/M240 Spare Barrel Bag 0.4

Magazine 28 Round 5.56mm steel 0.03

200 Round Belts 5.56mm (4 ball / 1tr) 0

M249 Saw Ammo Bag Canvas 5.56mm (200 rounds) 0.1

M2A1 Metal Container 5.56mm (800 rounds in 4 belts) 0.318

M2A1 Metal Container 5.56mm (840 rounds in 7 bandoleers) 0.318

Magazine 15 Round 9mm Steel 0.01

M2A1 Metal Container 9mm (1000 rounds) 0.318

M136CS AT4 Disposable AT rocket (Indoor) 1

M-136HP Disposable AT rocket (High Pen) 1

M-136I Disposable AT rocket (Incen) 1

AT8 Disposable AT rocket (HEDP) 1

M-132A1 Disposable ATGM (HEAT) 1

Nato Hand Grenade Box Holds 18 hand grenades 0.58

HAFLA-35L Disposable Flame Thrower 0.1

Plastic Tripex Container 81mm (3 round cap) 2

PA156 Metal Can Steel 81mm (3 round cap) 2

FSR Case of 9 0.405

MRE Case of 12 1.08

LRP Rations Case of 16 1.2



This is totally a work in progress so please forgive any errors. Also I have not started pact equipment (since my primary concern is for morrow project equipment) but I will get to it eventually.

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Targan 05-09-2008, 07:23 AM Here are some potentially useful cubic feet numbers.

Potentially useful? Bloody oath! Nice work Kato.

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kato13 05-09-2008, 07:29 AM Potentially useful? Bloody oath! Nice work Kato.


Thanks, I think I am moving in on having 2000 items in the database. I have weight for 95% and volume for about 50%. When it is done and I put it into a website where you can build kits, fill packs, fill vehicles, equip characters and generate PDFs for all the results then I will be happy with it.

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pmulcahy 05-09-2008, 07:53 AM What is wrong with carrying some or all of the cases as external cargo?


That's actually how the typical armored vehicle crew actually does carry most of their gear -- the interior of the Bradley is designed for a 3-man crew and 6 dismounts, but the space is really cramped, and you put your smallest guy (which at 5'8" and 145 lb at my fighting weight was usually me... ) in that tiny space beside the turret. (If you didn't know, the Bradley's turret is offset slightly to right, but it's not very noticable due to the TOW box on the left side.) A Bradley is far more cramped than a 113. So you strap everything you can on the outside, without blocking hatches, the rear hatch/ramp, or the IR recognition panels on each side (that's how friendly forces know you're also friendly, though now they are beginning to equip Bradleys with IFF). When I was in Bradleys, we also to not block the gun ports, though with the M-2A2 and later, that wasn't a problem.

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boogiedowndonovan 05-09-2008, 01:17 PM off on a tangent, but what happened to the M231 Firing Port Weapons that were mounted on the Bradleys and then removed?

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thefusilier 05-11-2008, 08:21 AM Thanks everyone. Good opinions / ideas all around. Appreciate the feedback.

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pmulcahy 05-11-2008, 12:11 PM off on a tangent, but what happened to the M231 Firing Port Weapons that were mounted on the Bradleys and then removed?


That is a good question. When I left 24th ID (now reflagged as 3rd ID), we still had the M-2A1s, and still had our firing ports. We had been instructed to remove and turn in the sliding wire stocks, but otherwise still had the M-231s. That's a good one to check. I have a good book on the Bradley series around here somewhere...

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FightingFlamingo 05-12-2008, 08:18 AM You need to find an old copy of FM 7-7J, it has an Appendix which shows a combat loading plan for the M2. Based on what you've listed you should have plenty of room, just an FYI though, hang the rucksacks & duffles off of the sides, to free up some internal space... and additional factor on your internal volume issues will be defined by which type of troop seating is present in your vehicle (i.e. bench vs. Individual seats)... bench seats are better for storing gear...

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pmulcahy 05-13-2008, 08:58 AM Of course, if you really want to cram yourself into an IFV with a tiny interior, you should try a BMP-1...we got good looks inside BMP-1s when I was stationed in Korea and during Desert Shield. The idea of the BMP-1 seems to have mirrored the design of their tanks -- "We want a tank with a low profile, so let's start with smaller crewmen!"

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copeab 05-13-2008, 09:58 AM Of course, if you really want to cram yourself into an IFV with a tiny interior, you should try a BMP-1...we got good looks inside BMP-1s when I was stationed in Korea and during Desert Shield. The idea of the BMP-1 seems to have mirrored the design of their tanks -- "We want a tank with a low profile, so let's start with smaller crewmen!"


From a GURPS writeup I did on the BMP-1:


"Despite the initial reaction NATO had to the BMP-1, it has turned out to have several flaws. The armor is extremely thin, as with other APCs, making the vehicle vulnerable to anything heavier than a machine gun. Its compact interior greatly increases the chance that any penetrating hit will disable or destroy the MICV (in addition, the hollow rear doors double as fuel tanks and the main fuel tank is in the troop compartment, meaning a rear hit is likely to incinerate the troops). The crew and passengers are extremely cramped, which undoubtedly hampers the crew's performance, especially when operated for long periods off-road. Running off-road at high speed can quickly reduce the troops to uselessness. The unstabilized 73mm gun has a blind spot between the 11-12 o'clock position, where it is blocked by the commander's spotlight (in fact, the turret won't rotate past the spotlight if the gun isn't sufficiently elevated). In addition, the gun must be at 3.5 degrees elevation for the autoloader to function correctly. There have also been reports that if the gunner is not being careful, the autoloader will attempt to feed his arm into the breech; several users have removed the autoloader due to safety concerns."


Brandon

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thefusilier 05-31-2008, 03:59 AM Thanks again. One more question...


The Bradley has a special passenger roof hatch (for reloading the TOW) correct? I'm not sure just how big the hatch is or where its located in relation to getting in the way of the turret.


Is it practical for someone to be posted there during movement? Not to reload, but like how the dismounts can do so on the Marder, LAV or M113 for example - to fire their personal weapons and act as an extra lookout.

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sladethesniper 05-31-2008, 02:05 PM The hatch is directly behind the turret...in a top down tech drawing, it is the large rectangle. It is pretty good size, I am going to guess 4 feet wide by two feet long...just a guess.


You COULD have the hatch open and a dismount or two out of it for security, but it won't do you much good. The hatch and dismounts will make the turret unable to turn much from 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock, the hatch opens to the rear, so rear security isn't assisted much...


Check the second picture on this page Bradley Cargo hatch (http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/m2bradley.html)


-STS

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pmulcahy 05-31-2008, 02:47 PM Actually, that hatch is pretty much useless for most purposes other than reloading the TOW launcher. The hatch is less than 2x3 feet, and it opens just enough to slide missiles into the launcher box after the turret is rotated slightly left and the launcher raised to maximum elevation. You could open it enough to take a peek outside and possibly take some pot shots with a pistol (or completely unaimed shots with a submachinegun or short-barreled assault rifle) or chuck a grenade out, but that's about it.

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thefusilier 05-31-2008, 09:17 PM Very well. Thanks for the quick responses fellas.

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