It had to happen sooner or later...

[pmulcahy11b]

http://news.msn.com/world/chinas-fir...ocid=ansnews11

[kato13]

The link required me to login to MSN

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/01...es-sea-trials/

China's first aircraft carrier completes sea trials


I am assuming this is the story


edit: Interesting it appears MSN only requires a login if you are using a non Microsoft Browser.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Well well China now has the same level of power projection as Thailand and Brazil. Welcome to the club.

[stormlion1]

I'm curious how many country's attack submarines were dialing up solutions on that carrier the entire time it was out of port.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

I'm curious how many country's attack submarines were dialing up solutions on that carrier the entire time it was out of port.

Thing probably sounds like a damn junkyard tooling around. *I* could work up a firing solution on it with a walkman and a stethoscope!

[.45cultist]

I don't expect them to be a blue water scourge just yet. But sending that tub to the Spratleys can be worked into a game timeline.

[stormlion1]

Apparently according to Yahoo they have laid down a new carrier to be finished in something like six years.
http://news.yahoo.com/china-building...--finance.html

[Matt Wiser]

And the PRC's workmanship in their naval shipyards is still questionable. The Pakistanis and Thais bought surface combatants from the ChiComs, and both had to send their ships to Western yards for overhaul as a result. Some problems: watertight doors that wouldn't close, pipes improperly fitted, fire-fighting gear not working, and so on. The Thais vowed never to buy from the PRC ever again, no matter how cheap the price was as a result.

[.45cultist]

That's just OJT for damage control parties. Maybe the yard dumped that on export so some PLAN admiral wouldn't put them against a wall.

[Sith]

Yes, having a carrier is a big deal. However, the Chinese now have the same problem that many countries face when they attain new capabilities/equipment. That is experience. Their two biggest competitors are the US and India. Each of which have decades upon decades of carrier operations experience. They may have a carrier, but fighting and winning with it is a whole other story.... A least for now.

[schnickelfritz]

You know, the Ukranians have a derelict, but nearly complete Slava class cruiser at their docks.

If they were smart, they'd look into buying it to help escort. Properly refitted, it would be a pretty big stick to wave around. Even USN pilots wouldn't relish dealing with it and its blizzard of SAMs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_cruiser_Ukrayina

Dave

[Matt Wiser]

That's what Mr. HARM and EA-18 are for. Not to mention that Carrier Groups always have an SSN in direct support. Want to make things easier for the war-at-sea strike? Have a sub take out one or two of the Anti-Air Warfare ships. Gives the strike birds an easier run to the target.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

And the PRC's workmanship in their naval shipyards is still questionable. The Pakistanis and Thais bought surface combatants from the ChiComs, and both had to send their ships to Western yards for overhaul as a result. Some problems: watertight doors that wouldn't close, pipes improperly fitted, fire-fighting gear not working, and so on. The Thais vowed never to buy from the PRC ever again, no matter how cheap the price was as a result.

And it's not just their naval shipyards, it seems to be endemic to their whole fabrication industry. Two examples, one from personal experience and one from a friend who worked in mine site construction.

1. At my old workplace, we purchased some industrial dust extraction units from a PRC company. The motors accompanying the units were underpowered, the legs to stand the units on were designed in a manner that prevented easy access to the dust collection drum and the electrical and pneumatic controls can only be accessed via a ladder (true, only a small ladder, but you still can't reach the controls from ground level)

2. My friend mentioned this to me. It occurred sometime in the mid-2000s on the construction site he was on in the north west of Western Australia. The construction company decided to buy pre-fabricated steel beams from China because they were cheaper than having them made in Australia. Unfortunately, the manufacturer in the PRC had put all the bolt holes in the wrong places and some beams were not the right length.
All the steel beams had to be shipped about 1500km (approx 930 miles) to Perth to be fixed for a not insubstantial cost - the rumour being that the whole exercise cost as much as if they'd just bought the beams from an Australian company.

[.45cultist]

Slightly OT, there was a Chinese movie about the '73 war with Vietnam that had a scene where the ChiCom forces plagued with old and faulty ammo find brand new stuff in overrun Viet positions. It was based on true accounts and made in the 1990's.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

And it's not just their naval shipyards, it seems to be endemic to their whole fabrication industry. Two examples, one from personal experience and one from a friend who worked in mine site construction.

1. At my old workplace, we purchased some industrial dust extraction units from a PRC company. The motors accompanying the units were underpowered, the legs to stand the units on were designed in a manner that prevented easy access to the dust collection drum and the electrical and pneumatic controls can only be accessed via a ladder (true, only a small ladder, but you still can't reach the controls from ground level)

2. My friend mentioned this to me. It occurred sometime in the mid-2000s on the construction site he was on in the north west of Western Australia. The construction company decided to buy pre-fabricated steel beams from China because they were cheaper than having them made in Australia. Unfortunately, the manufacturer in the PRC had put all the bolt holes in the wrong places and some beams were not the right length.
All the steel beams had to be shipped about 1500km (approx 930 miles) to Perth to be fixed for a not insubstantial cost - the rumour being that the whole exercise cost as much as if they'd just bought the beams from an Australian company.

Something the Chinese have been putting in their gypsum mix has been "eating" metal studs in new house construction here in FL for a while. To the point that a lot of houses that passed initial inspection were failing later.

This was all after our 4-hurricane season back in '04 when poor Port Charlotte got wiped off the map, and there was more widespread damage thru the state.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

And it's not just their naval shipyards, it seems to be endemic to their whole fabrication industry. Two examples, one from personal experience and one from a friend who worked in mine site construction...

All the steel beams had to be shipped about 1500km (approx 930 miles) to Perth to be fixed for a not insubstantial cost - the rumour being that the whole exercise cost as much as if they'd just bought the beams from an Australian company.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that the cheapest option isn't always the cheapest option? I hope someone tells the self-congratulatory crew in charge of the new [San Francisco] Bay Bridge before they install cheap Chinese steel in the bridge...

[.45cultist]

But it aids the war effort! No sabotage needed.

[stormlion1]

Like I always say. You get what you pay for. You pay for Steel from China, you get a inferior product and if you buy a Ford you would have been better off with a Toyota.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Slightly OT, there was a Chinese movie about the '73 war with Vietnam that had a scene where the ChiCom forces plagued with old and faulty ammo find brand new stuff in overrun Viet positions. It was based on true accounts and made in the 1990's.

Name? Or something we can google off of?

[.45cultist]

Ugh! It was a show about the then leader's favorite movie makers and how this semi-documentary on the 70's Sino- Viet war made their government bring back rank and other reforms. Now I have to track it down! It mentioned their leader, Mr. Deng had a Hong Kong filmmaking couple become "guests", and it was their movie. Still searching.....

[.45cultist]

The source I read was dead tree and I must report my failure to find it online. Only broad references including 500 soldiers killed by their own weapons malfunctioning. It's a shame because the article went into detail on the VN female snipers wreaking havoc on the ChiCom armor and infantry. Making lemons into lemonaid, I'm thinking of a scenario with a Moison Nagant, and a couple of other ideas for the Chinese.