Twilight 2013 Vehicle stats

[Tnchi2a]

This may have been posted but, what im looking for is the conversion rules and/or stats for Vehicle not in the Corebook/Czech Your Engine pdf.
things like the armor on a M1A2 SEP,Leclerc,T-90, etc.
or if anyone has made or got there hands on the rules or formulas that 93 Games/Clayton A. Oliver. used.

[.45cultist]

there were notes in the rules, but Clayton Oliver knows best, My apologies if I misspelled his name. Not much is supposed to be needed to convert vehicles.

[Tnchi2a]

I was more looking for the conversion from 2.2 to 2k13

[.45cultist]

Yes, I need to look through the main rules, but by comparing the Leopard to T2K2.2 one can convert over the stats. Paul Mulcahy's site has the M1A2 SEP in 2.2 stats.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

I was more looking for the conversion from 2.2 to 2k13

I've gotten the T2013 bug, so I will do some work on a few vehicles.

[Tegyrius]

I think I may have addressed this before but I can't find the thread. Someone with more motivation and free time should index all the Reflex System rules clarifications I've posted.

Most of the vehicle numbers can be engineered from real-world performance. Armor stats, which are key to combat, are the trickiest. Because the small arms ballistics formulas changed between 2.0/2.2 and Reflex, using the GDW armor formulas results in MBTs that can be mobility-killed with a FAL.* Thus, vehicle armor is a combination of "looks good enough" at low levels and the old formulas at high levels.

At low levels, my recommendation is to look up the real-world performance, find the Reflex Damage value for the heaviest round that armor will defeat, and add 3 to 5 points. For example, if a vehicle's armor is rated to defeat "anything up to 21mm Balkanian" and the published stats for 21mm Balkanian show it as having Damage 33, then I'd go with an armor value around 37.

At higher levels - basically, MBTs and vehicles based on their hulls - it's safe to use the old GDW formulas. These seem to provide roughly equivalent performance against tank-caliber sabots, whose damage is derived from the small arms damage formulas with a couple of tweaks.

Vehicle suspension actually has rules. For wheeled suspensions:

• Motorcycle = AV 1
• Passenger car = AV 2
• Off-road consumer vehicle, light commercial vehicle = AV 3
• Heavy commercial vehicle = AV 4
• HMMWV or equivalent light tactical vehicle = AV 3
• Armored car or MRAP = AV 4
• Wheeled AFV = vehicle tonnage divided by 2.5
• Tracked AFV = (square root of vehicle tonnage) multiplied by 3

- C.

* Not an exaggeration. We really did have a case where an average hit with something in 7.62x51mm could put suspension damage on a Leopard.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

I think I may have addressed this before but I can't find the thread. Someone with more motivation and free time should index all the Reflex System rules clarifications I've posted.

Most of the vehicle numbers can be engineered from real-world performance. Armor stats, which are key to combat, are the trickiest. Because the small arms ballistics formulas changed between 2.0/2.2 and Reflex, using the GDW armor formulas results in MBTs that can be mobility-killed with a FAL.* Thus, vehicle armor is a combination of "looks good enough" at low levels and the old formulas at high levels.

At low levels, my recommendation is to look up the real-world performance, find the Reflex Damage value for the heaviest round that armor will defeat, and add 3 to 5 points. For example, if a vehicle's armor is rated to defeat "anything up to 21mm Balkanian" and the published stats for 21mm Balkanian show it as having Damage 33, then I'd go with an armor value around 37.

At higher levels - basically, MBTs and vehicles based on their hulls - it's safe to use the old GDW formulas. These seem to provide roughly equivalent performance against tank-caliber sabots, whose damage is derived from the small arms damage formulas with a couple of tweaks.

Vehicle suspension actually has rules. For wheeled suspensions:

• Motorcycle = AV 1
• Passenger car = AV 2
• Off-road consumer vehicle, light commercial vehicle = AV 3
• Heavy commercial vehicle = AV 4
• HMMWV or equivalent light tactical vehicle = AV 3
• Armored car or MRAP = AV 4
• Wheeled AFV = vehicle tonnage divided by 2.5
• Tracked AFV = (square root of vehicle tonnage) multiplied by 3

- C.

* Not an exaggeration. We really did have a case where an average hit with something in 7.62x51mm could put suspension damage on a Leopard.

I was hoping you'd stop in here! Thanks for the rules.

[Tnchi2a]

I just wanted to post the armor stats that i have come up with from my research.

Name HF - HS - HR / TF - TS - TR

Leopard 2A4 160cp- 41- 31 / 188cp-60cp-49*

Leopard 2A6 164cp- 41- 31 / 195cp-68cp-49

M1A2 SEP 205cp- 30cp-21cp /183cp-68cp-65

Challange 2 166cp- 43cp-27cp /192cp-68cp-55*

Leclerc 98cp- 36cp-20cp /121cp-34cp-34

T-90 160cp- 43 -36 / 190cp-88 - 42

T-80 156cp- 41 -36 / 170cp-88 - 42*

T-72 97cp- 41 -31 / 110cp-79 - 33*

* stats from Core rule /start you engines
open to feedback on all stats would love to here what you think before i start stating out more tanks
p.s. sorry about how hard it is to read can't seem to get the columns to work

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

p.s. sorry about how hard it is to read can't seem to get the columns to work

Yeah that's always been a problem
The only solutions that seemed to work were either: -
creating the table, taking a screenshot then posting the image here,
or,
creating a word doc and posting it here for people to download.

[Tnchi2a]

Was surprised to say the least when i got the results for the M1A2

but the write-up on the tanks said it all.

M1a2= designed for frontal high speed attack (for a tank) little thought given to side attacks, with the range and accuracy of the gun was not deemed necessary.

Challanger 2 = designed for open country warfare, with alot of emphasis placed on crew survival from any direction

Leclerc = designed for low profile high speed warfare (armor sacrificed for speed) and sitting so low it would be hard to target

Leopard 2a6= more or less and uparmored 2a4 but with a better gun installed
the turret redesign is the only real armor upgrade it has (the angling of the turret front added most of the RHae for the turret)

[.45cultist]

There are projects that would double the M1A2's gun range. haven't heard about them for a while though.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

I just wanted to post the armor stats that i have come up with from my research.

Name HF - HS - HR / TF - TS - TR

Leopard 2A4 160cp- 41- 31 / 188cp-60cp-49*

Leopard 2A6 164cp- 41- 31 / 195cp-68cp-49

M1A2 SEP 205cp- 30cp-21cp /183cp-68cp-65

Challange 2 166cp- 43cp-27cp /192cp-68cp-55*

Leclerc 98cp- 36cp-20cp /121cp-34cp-34

T-90 160cp- 43 -36 / 190cp-88 - 42

T-80 156cp- 41 -36 / 170cp-88 - 42*

T-72 97cp- 41 -31 / 110cp-79 - 33*

* stats from Core rule /start you engines
open to feedback on all stats would love to here what you think before i start stating out more tanks
p.s. sorry about how hard it is to read can't seem to get the columns to work

You did pretty good!

[Tnchi2a]

The one thing that seem to be true of most tank is, on average your not going to take them out on a frontal hit.
The most powerful tank gun the L/55 cant penetrate the front armor of most 1st world tanks.

[.45cultist]

Another interesting vehicle is the land rover, it could be aquired in the category of jeeps, light SUV's or tactical trucks depending on the variant. I met a former Rhodesian who loved the old all aluminum ones, when they got stuck they bailed out, picked it up, and carried it to better ground!

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Another interesting vehicle is the land rover, it could be aquired in the category of jeeps, light SUV's or tactical trucks depending on the variant. I met a former Rhodesian who loved the old all aluminum ones, when they got stuck they bailed out, picked it up, and carried it to better ground!

These and the 80's vintage Toyota 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive pickups where "staple vehicles" in Africa. Of course, the Toyota outnumbered the Land Rover 100 to 1. Toyota must have sold like a billion of those little two wheel drives to everyone in Africa. They all had rotted fenders and missing hoods. The Toyota was the vehicle of choice in Somalia for a "Technical." In Nigeria, they were using one as a "generator" to power the lights in a local hospital. If you want to see Twilight 2000 innovation; Just go to Africa.