OT: War in Angola

[Webstral]

I’m learning something new about post-WW2 conflict in Subsaharan Africa. I’ve started a new book on the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale I’m not sure yet what application this will have to Twilight. My 3-pages-at-a-time modality hasn’t permitted me to get far enough to say.

Cuito Cuanavale is a village at the confluence of two rivers in southern Angola. The town became the focus of a contest between Communist Angola, Cuba, and the Soviet Union on one side and UNITA and South Africa on the other. In late 1987, the Reds launched an offensive intended to defeat UNITA in southeastern Angola. South Africa had been supporting UNITA as a means of keeping communists from supporting SWAPO in Namibia and to keep SWAPO from gaining safe havens in southern Angola.

I knew that the South Africans had fought in support of UNITA. What I didn’t know was that the South Africans struggled with many of the same problems in Angola as US forces did in Vietnam—namely, the politicians. I also didn’t know that the South Africans did not prevail overwhelmingly. I suppose that makes me a typical Westerner in that I think the South Africans always carried the day on the battlefield. I also did not know that the Soviets and the Cubans often were at odds about how to get things done on the battlefield. All very interesting so far…

[swaghauler]

Most of the expert soldiers of Executive Outcomes were veterans of this conflict. A great many Mercs were used in this little "border skirmish," with Challenger Oilfield Services footing the bill for several Merc ops. This would be a good historic MERC campaign.

[Silent Hunter UK]

The South Africans had intense problems dealing with the ANC's armed wing; also you have to remember they were under heavy international sanctions because of apartheid.

[Webstral]

I've made a bit more progress. The author refers to EW a bit, which is a welcome change. EW seems like the redheaded stepchild of military history. I find it fascinating. I'm glad the author compares the EW capabilities of the opposing sides, albeit briefly.

I had no idea that SADF conscripts were being used during the operations in Angola. How interesting! I knew that South Africa had manpower issues. I did not know they were this deep.

The author places limits on the effectiveness of the SAAF over Angola. This is new to me. Everything I have read to this point suggests that the South Africans penetrated Angolan airspace at will. The author goes on to discuss the material and morale impacts of Cuban MiG-23 operations against the South Africans in southern Angola. Fascinating! This is in stark contrast to other reading I've done that takes a broader view of the fighting in Angola, in which the technical superiority of the South Africans in all aspects is matched against the clumsy numerical superiority of the communist forces. While the author gives some credence to the idea of clumsiness and mass on the part of the communists, he differentiates between Cuban, Angolan, and Soviet forces in many specific ways. He also claims that in some areas the Cubans were at least the equals of the South Africans. So far, this has been a very interesting learning experience.

[Raellus]

Cuito Cuanavale makes for a good framework for late Twilight War battles involving armor. BTW, what's the book called, Web?

[Webstral]

Yeah, the title would be a nice thing to include, right? The Last Hot Battle of the Cold War by Peter Polack.

As I get further in, I see some strong points and some weak points. The author has done his homework. He names a lot of names. He lists leaders on both sides down to a fairly low level, and he names many of the casualties. There are enough copy editing errors for them to be an ongoing distraction. The author's sentence structure reminds me of my own. Unfortunately, this is not working out for my comprehension. I'm obliged to ask myself if my writing style needs an overhaul.

[Louied]

Web,

This is the link to some of the books I have on the SADF/Angolan Border War. PM me if you want me to look up something or if you want reviews.

https://www.librarything.com/catalog...efence%2BForce

I had always intended to do an unbiased take on Operation Hooper/Packer but two kids have halted this until after retirement.......

The USMC published a pretty good paper in 2000, Fighting Columns in Small Wars: An OMFTS Model. You can find it here
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/52703286#fullscreen

If that doesn't work let me know, I have it as a PDF on my laptop.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Louied

https://www.librarything.com/catalog...efence%2BForce


The USMC published a pretty good paper in 2000, Fighting Columns in Small Wars: An OMFTS Model. You can find it here
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/52703286#fullscreen

Now that's an interesting-looking collection. I'm especially intrigued by The Continent Ablaze: Insurgency Wars in Africa 1960 to the Present. Thanks for posting those links. One could invest considerable time digesting those resources.

[Webstral]

This business of reading 3 pages at a time in the bathroom is killing me. Maybe I need to print out Matt's fiction so I have a halfway decent chance of reading it on bathroom breaks. My children's needs for service and entertainment execute a Pavlovian spike as soon as I open my laptop.

[RN7]

Loren Wiseman's MERC 2000 has an article related to Angola called the 'The Cabinda War'. Its set around a civil war in Zaire which spills over the border into Angola with both countries fighting each other. I'll post it up if anyone is interested.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Yeah, the title would be a nice thing to include, right? The Last Hot Battle of the Cold War by Peter Polack.

Personally, I'd give that title to Desert Storm...

[Webstral]

I got to the end of "Last Hot Battle". The book did not live up to its initial promise. There was a decided lack of focus. The author sort of drifts from one phase of the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale to another without providing much of a narrative voice to events. There are lots of interesting tidbits, but a central voice and unifying theme are lacking. To the degree that this might be seen as recreating a soldier's point of view, I find this interesting. However, a history narrative has to have a spinal central voice or theme on which everything else hangs. There are some other shortcomings. I'll write an Amazon review and give this 3 of 5 stars. I would recommend that others get this from the library, if possible.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK

Personally, I'd give that title to Desert Storm...

I thought about this idea for the rest of the day yesterday. It's an idea that merits its own thread.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I thought about this idea for the rest of the day yesterday. It's an idea that merits its own thread.

I remember a discussion of this topic in the forum but I don't recall whether it was part of a dedicated thread, or a tangent to a different topic. I'll scan the thread map again and see if there's a thread listed where we could revisit this discussion.

Personally, since Iraq was no longer a Soviet proxy, I don't really see Desert Storm as a Cold War battleground. Even before the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Iraq was playing both sides of the fence. Iran, on the other hand, tried to distance itself from both the U.S.A. and the U.S.S.R.

On the other hand, even though South Africa was a bit of a global pariah, and technically non-aligned, it was seen by the West- and used- as a bulwark against communism in the southern quarter of the continent. Angola was most definitely a communist proxy, for both the U.S.S.R. and Cuba. So yes, I agree that the fighting there was a regional annex of the larger Cold War.

[Olefin]

I touched on the war in Angola in the East African sourcebook as part of the back history of Africa in general and how the South Africans got involved in the Twilight War after getting nuked by the Soviets attacking refineries

About all we know from canon is that the Cubans lost and withdrew leaving their heavy weapons behind (from Gateway to the Spanish Main) - you have to assume a South African involvement there

and the hint that the Constitution is picking up stranded Americans in Cape Town makes it likely they were there for a reason -i.e. possibly as liaison troops with the SA

[unkated]

Originally Posted by RN7

Loren Wiseman's MERC 2000 has an article related to Angola called the 'The Cabinda War'. Its set around a civil war in Zaire which spills over the border into Angola with both countries fighting each other. I'll post it up if anyone is interested.

Ah, the Cabinda War. That tickled my memory - for a reason:

Cabinda War Timeline

- from out of the depths of time, on an ancient, unchanged website...

I had produced this because I had a couple of Merc:2000 scenarios I was developing in and around the Cabinda War.

Uncle Ted