Where are the Foreign National Military Students?

[ArmySGT.]

As the title states. Where? There is an entire Luftwaffe squadron in Nevada. Hundreds of students at the ADA school at Bliss, more at the Infantry school and School of the Americas at Benning. Signals school at Stewart, supply at Lee, this is just the Army.

Plenty come to train bringing their equipment to use at NTC or JRTC because they can't play in a sandbox that big at home.

Last, there is Officer and Senior NCO exchanges in all Services to encourage interoperability.

[Tnchi2a]

I'm lost was this a question or a statement?

Don't get me wrong everything you said was right so this is not a challenge, but the thread header ended with a question mark and I cant find a question lol.

It seems to me that if it is you answered it in your own post.

[kato13]

There are the two units in Canada.

Would any personnel from the UK and West Germany (had to remember to type "West" lol) who were stationed in the US have joined up with them.

For those who don't have the Challenge article on Canada here are the basics

Anglo-German Brigade (Ontario)
1/The Royal Hampshire Regiment: 250 cavalry (Kitchener).
1/The Cheshire Regiment: 350 men (Sault Ste. Marie).
53rd Panzer Battalion: 250 men, 9 AFVs (Sudbury).
81st Panzer Grenadier Battalion (M): 300 men, 6 AFVs (Waterloo).

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

I'm lost was this a question or a statement?

Don't get me wrong everything you said was right so this is not a challenge, but the thread header ended with a question mark and I cant find a question lol.

It seems to me that if it is you answered it in your own post.

Everybody has obsessive lists of OOB..... I haven't seen much cross contamination in U.S. units of either government.

As Europe goes to war, place to train replacements are to vulnerable so placing them and a few hundred personnel to train outside Europe becomes a necessity........ especially after tactical nukes get tossed about.

Further these OOBs don't show any foreign military students or liaisons working with them....... So my question is where are they?

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Everybody has obsessive lists of OOB..... I haven't seen much cross contamination in U.S. units of either government.

As Europe goes to war, place to train replacements are to vulnerable so placing them and a few hundred personnel to train outside Europe becomes a necessity........ especially after tactical nukes get tossed about.

Further these OOBs don't show any foreign military students or liaisons working with them....... So my question is where are they?

Just a guess, mixed in the the US units. My old Armor Battalion had representives from our sister unit (Kings Own Cavalry Regiment) with us from time to time and we sent representives to them from time to time, if the bubble bursts when either is with the other, I would guess they would just be incorprated into the respective unit. As for School units I again see them being used to fill out units around them, or to make adhoc base defense unit. I do wounder about the entire units, we have the Japanese train here every year or so for a couple of weeks, I am not sure about after the war starts but could defently see some being here when it all kicks off and having a hard time getting home.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Realistically, as soon as their own nation was gearing up for the war, they'd all be recalled home (with their equipment).
Game-wise, it allows a bit of freedom to mix up the nationalities.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Realistically, as soon as their own nation was gearing up for the war, they'd all be recalled home (with their equipment).
Game-wise, it allows a bit of freedom to mix up the nationalities.

How many would be told to stay in place, and finish their training?
How many countries would have an operational training base or bases left? How many countries would still be sending students to the US or Canada because they no longer can train them at home?
How many stayed because their isn't any practical way to get home?
How many are here as advisers teaching NATO troops to fight in their home countries terrain and navigate the culture?
How many are in multinational commands like NORAD, SAC, or Atlantic Fleet?

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by kato13

There are the two units in Canada.

Would any personnel from the UK and West Germany (had to remember to type "West" lol) who were stationed in the US have joined up with them.

For those who don't have the Challenge article on Canada here are the basics

Anglo-German Brigade (Ontario)
1/The Royal Hampshire Regiment: 250 cavalry (Kitchener).
1/The Cheshire Regiment: 350 men (Sault Ste. Marie).
53rd Panzer Battalion: 250 men, 9 AFVs (Sudbury).
81st Panzer Grenadier Battalion (M): 300 men, 6 AFVs (Waterloo).

While this looks good in the book, the IRL is actually number are quite small

British Army Training Unit Suffield (BATUS)

This unit is made up of an HQ, 29 Flight, Army Air Corps, 105 Logistic Support Squadron, and the BATUS REME Workshop. The total strength is 200 persons, with another 480 in temporary staff, 400 arrive in the summer months to assist with training (this is the OPFOR Inf BN). The other 80 arrive in the winter to conduct maintenance on the fleet of vehicles.

29 Flight AAC provides aviation support for the training. Its roles include supervision, CASEVAC (casualty evacuation), reconnaissance, liaison and limited lift of passengers and equipment.

Each year between May and October BATUS trains about 4-6 Battlegroups in live fire and force on force. Training they are unable to do in the UK, due to small training areas.

Around 30 Challenger 2 tanks, 50 Warrior tracked armored vehicles, 6 AS 90 SPG, 195 other vehicles, as well as 5 Gazelle helicopters making up 29 (BATUS) Flight AAC are based at BATUS.

German Army Training Establishment Shilo (GATES)

Similar to BATUS but it had less staff and vehicles GATES full time staff was around 40 persons and it had 45 Leopard I's, 14 M-109 self-propelled Howitzers, as well as an assortment of wheeled and tracked support vehicles.

In beginning 1995 the German government looked at the rational for training troops in Canada due the high cost and in 2000 GATES was disband and the equipment and men we returned to Germany.

Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay

During the 1980s–1990s, CFB Goose Bay hosted permanent detachments from the United States Airforce, Royal Air Force, Luftwaffe, Royal Netherlands Air Force, and the Aeronautica Militare, in addition to temporary deployments from several other NATO countries. Goose Bay was a very attractive training facility for these air forces in light of the high population concentration in their countries, as well as numerous laws preventing low-level flying. The thirteen million hectare (130,000 square km) bombing range is larger than several European countries.

Labrador's sparse settlement and a local topography similar to parts of the Soviet Union also made it an ideal location for low level flying.

In the mid 1990’s the Royal Netherlands Air Force, which was followed by Royal Air Force, Luftwaffe, and the Aeronautica Militare in 2003.

The United States Airforce still uses the base as the United States Coast Guard, who use it from time to time for Iceberg hunting Patrols, but no permeant troops are stationed there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British..._Unit_Suffield
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Auf+wi......-a030085363
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFB_Shilo

Ok now that you read what was above, think would the Germans and the British continue to ship it troops overseas away from the fighting in large number to continue training? Would it keep or recall its vehicles in Canada when loses mount?

Now if talking about foreign troops in the US then look at the

United States Army School of the Americas
United States Army Foreign Intelligence Assistance Program
United States Army Command and General Staff College

USMA West Point: Up to 60 students from foreign countries are present at USMA, educated at the expense of the sponsoring nation, with tuition assistance based on the GNP of their country. Of these foreign cadets the Code of Federal Regulations specifically permits one Filipino cadet designated by the President of the Philippines.

Also I know that a few Canadian Officers are on exchange to key US Army Schools, IE infantry, Artillery ect. Where I use to work we had Four US Officers and One British Officer on exchange.

Since 1998 the US III Corps has participated in an exchange program which sees a Canadian Army officer appointed as a deputy commanding general.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

How many would be told to stay in place, and finish their training?
How many countries would have an operational training base or bases left? How many countries would still be sending students to the US or Canada because they no longer can train them at home?
How many stayed because their isn't any practical way to get home?
How many are here as advisers teaching NATO troops to fight in their home countries terrain and navigate the culture?
How many are in multinational commands like NORAD, SAC, or Atlantic Fleet?

Also, don't forget USMC embassy guards.

[pmulcahy11b]

Also: Airborne School, Air Assault School, Ranger School, NTC, JRTC, Arctic/Mountain School, Basic and Advanced Pilot Training; I'm sure there's much more.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK

Also, don't forget USMC embassy guards.

Outside the U.S. ....... My thoughts being military personnel other than U.S. on U.S. soil......

Can you imagine Warsaw Pact embassy staff after the TDM?

Do you suppose everyone closed up their Embassies and Consulates when things escalated to shooting?

Did some Embassies remain open as the conduit for communications between the Warsaw Pact and NATO.....

Does Micronesia or Madagascar really have a stake in all this?

With war in Europe and Asia wouldn't other nations be sending their Officers and Senior NCOs possibly even Battalions of green recruits to train in the western hemisphere?

Chile could be killing it training desert warfare, alpine warfare, and amphibious assault to countries willing to fund it.

Panama could be running Jungle Warfare school for several southeast asia and Polynesian nations.

Small towns all over the U.S. and Canada could find themselves the home of a technical school for sailors and airmen learning their trades.

Some of them not even from north America.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Also: Airborne School, Air Assault School, Ranger School, NTC, JRTC, Arctic/Mountain School, Basic and Advanced Pilot Training; I'm sure there's much more.

Dive school, EOD tech, Maintenance officer, Signals Intel.,

This doesn't even consider the massive retraining of Air Force and Naval personnel when there are no ships to put to see; or aircraft to fly any longer.

Other countries could be pooling resources on that too. One cruise ship could bring hundreds of European military personnel to North America that would then divide up for every school type imaginable. Promised to one day return.

Possibly even with a refugee ship desperate to go somewhere that could be better.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

If you're a nation at war, why on earth would you waste resources & time to send battalions of troops to a foreign country for training? You'd train them at home and send them to where they're needed as soon as possible.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

If you're a nation at war, why on earth would you waste resources & time to send battalions of troops to a foreign country for training? You'd train them at home and send them to where they're needed as soon as possible.

To get them trained out of the reach of enemy bombers and theater capable missile. Can't train very well with live enemy ordnance falling on your head.

This all includes smaller nations without the GDP pre-War to have afforded the facilities in the first place.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

That makes the assumption that "the frontline is everywhere".
During the final years of the Twilight War that might be true but I don't recall anything in the timeline (to be fair, it's been a while since I read it) that indicates this is the case during the early years of the war.

Enemy training areas are typically low priority targets when you have enemy bomber bases and enemy theatre capable missiles to worry about.
Aside from all that, if we follow the line of reasoning that the attacker will attack training areas within the country, why would they not also attack airports and seaports to prevent those trainees from leaving (or re-entering once they've been trained)?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

That makes the assumption that "the frontline is everywhere".
During the final years of the Twilight War that might be true but I don't recall anything in the timeline (to be fair, it's been a while since I read it) that indicates this is the case during the early years of the war.

This would be more true in the early and especially middle years. At that time bombers and conventional bombs; more so bombers with air launched cruise missiles are still available. Training bases are primary muster locations for reserve units and as such legitimate military targets that disrupt operations and demoralize your opponent when attacked.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Enemy training areas are typically low priority targets when you have enemy bomber bases and enemy theatre capable missiles to worry about.
Aside from all that, if we follow the line of reasoning that the attacker will attack training areas within the country, why would they not also attack airports and seaports to prevent those trainees from leaving (or re-entering once they've been trained)?

I agree any competent attacker would; striking an airport or seaport could make them unsuitable for weeks or months. A strike on a training base is two fold. One you have killed or wounded the trainees, they are no longer fit to fight. You have destroyed the capability to train them, the instructors are dead or wounded, and the facilities smashed. Third, you have demoralized the local civilian population. Who is going to let their son or daughter sign up to a military that cannot even protect itself at home?

It is the same reason the U.S. and Allied nations expend Tomahawks on desert encampments of tents.