Optional New House Rule I Borrowed

[swaghauler]

As you all know, I mod my games quite a bit. For those who don't know, I added various Difficulty Levels to the RAW V2.2 game system and simply "shift" up or down in Difficulty Level for modifications to fire combat like movement and cover. Here's a list of my Difficulty Levels in case you are looking at my posted "house rules" here in the forum. I figure a base skill just like RAW (Characteristic + Skill Level) but my Difficulty Levels are less "Coarse" than RAW.

EASY (2 X Base Skill)
ROUTINE (1.5 X Base Skill)
AVERAGE (Base Skill)
DIFFICULT (0.5 X Base Skill)
FORMIDABLE (0.25 X Base Skill)
IMPOSSIBLE (0.1 X Base Skill)

While I have no complaints about the system in general, on some occasions the characters can get overwhelmed by the reductions to a point where they cannot succeed at a skill check (without a crit anyway).

I was looking for an easy to employ and fast to mediate mechanical "penalty for things like a poor position in HTH or a temporary reduction due to an enemy's action. I found such a mechanic in a strange place... as a player in a D&D5e game. The mechanic in question is the ADVANTAGE & DISADVANTAGE Mechanic.

ADVANTAGE & DISADVANTAGE DURING PLAY:

The way this mechanic works is that the player rolls TWO 1D20s instead of just one. IF the character has ADVANTAGE, they take the LOWER of the two rolls and discard the higher one. IF the character is DISADVANTAGED, they must take the HIGHER of the two rolls and discard the lower one. This provides a sufficient penalty or bonus WITHOUT adversely affecting the base target number.

I can see this mechanic being employed when a player is disoriented by an attack but you don't want to fully punish them with a major base skill reduction or to give a small advantage to a character who does something original during play.

All in all, I find this mechanic a good addition to a Twilight2000 V2.2 game.

[Vespers War]

Back when D&D 5e was being playtested with the advantage/disadvantage rules that used to be called "luck" in AD&D 2e's Jakandor setting, someone ran the math and figured they're effectively equivalent to +4/-4 when calculating odds.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

That's a damned fine idea, it's a quick & neat rule that'll allow us to play around a little with the distinctions between Difficulty Levels without shifting an entire Level.

My experience with the Advantage/Disadvantage system in D&D 5th isn't so positive - there's a feeling around the table that, although the odds should be the same, the chance for success with Advantage is less than the chance for penalty with Disadvantage. As far as I know, nobody has checked to see if this is actually true or if it's all psychological but I do find that the rule itself has a middling to negligible impact on the game.

[Raellus]

I too have experimented with using the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic in my PbP T2K campaign. I see granting Advantage as a way to reward player effort. I don't think I'd implement disadvantage, though- the world of T2K is harsh enough.

I've also toyed with Inspiration Points, which are awarded by the DM/Ref for creative gameplay, problem-solving, exceptional RP'ing, and that sort of thing. A player can have one IP at a time and cash it in at a time of his or her choosing. Oh, your player just took a round to the head, resulting in an insta-kill? Cash in that IP and we'll re-roll the enemy's to-hit chance or the hit location. Want to throw that frag into the open commanders hatch of a T-72 at 20m? Cash in that IP to get two Thrown Weapon rolls.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I too have experimented with using the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic in my PbP T2K campaign. I see granting Advantage as a way to reward player effort. I don't think I'd implement disadvantage, though- the world of T2K is harsh enough.

I've also toyed with Inspiration Points, which are awarded by the DM/Ref for creative gameplay, problem-solving, exceptional RP'ing, and that sort of thing. A player can have one IP at a time and cash it in at a time of his or her choosing. Oh, your player just took a round to the head, resulting in an insta-kill? Cash in that IP and we'll re-roll the enemy's to-hit chance or the hit location. Want to throw that frag into the open commanders hatch of a T-72 at 20m? Cash in that IP to get two Thrown Weapon rolls.

Your use of Inspiration Points reminds me of one aspect of the 2013 rules that I rather liked - the ability to sacrifice a piece of "useful" equipment to negate a damaging wound. By "useful" the implication was that items such as spare magazines, water bottles etc. etc. could be sacrificed but useless items could then be prevented from being hoarded to "trade in" whenever a wound was received.

[Lurken]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Your use of Inspiration Points reminds me of one aspect of the 2013 rules that I rather liked - the ability to sacrifice a piece of "useful" equipment to negate a damaging wound. By "useful" the implication was that items such as spare magazines, water bottles etc. etc. could be sacrificed but useless items could then be prevented from being hoarded to "trade in" whenever a wound was received.

Oooh, I like that one. I'll use that in the future.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I too have experimented with using the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic in my PbP T2K campaign. I see granting Advantage as a way to reward player effort. I don't think I'd implement disadvantage, though- the world of T2K is harsh enough.

I've also toyed with Inspiration Points, which are awarded by the DM/Ref for creative gameplay, problem-solving, exceptional RP'ing, and that sort of thing. A player can have one IP at a time and cash it in at a time of his or her choosing. Oh, your player just took a round to the head, resulting in an insta-kill? Cash in that IP and we'll re-roll the enemy's to-hit chance or the hit location. Want to throw that frag into the open commanders hatch of a T-72 at 20m? Cash in that IP to get two Thrown Weapon rolls.

You're limiting your options not using DISADVANTAGE. It is the ideal mechanic for a temporary penalty due to player positioning or behavior. It would be useful for inflicting penalties on the "bad guys" too.

I like the INSPIRATION mechanic BUT two of my players come from the "gritty realism" camp and might not approve. The other two come from the "in video games every hero is invincible after the third encounter" camp. I must walk a fine line between the two camps.

This is my one really major complaint about D&D 5e. It creates "superheroes" NOT "adventurers" in the vein of old AD&D. The FEATS are over the top and EVERY CLASS has access to magic. WTF? Give me what my nephew calls "Vietnam Era AD&D" every time!

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Lurken

Oooh, I like that one. I'll use that in the future.

There are several decent rules in TW2K13 that can be "retrofitted" to the other editions.

- They have the best Coolness Under Fire rules in my opinion.
- The use of QUALIFICATIONS (essentially a skill within a skill) is a very good idea.
- Their scrounging rules are second to none.
- I even like how they do Frag and Concussion (called Blast Damage).

It is worth picking up and Far Future Enterprises has it on CD-Rom.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Your use of Inspiration Points reminds me of one aspect of the 2013 rules that I rather liked - the ability to sacrifice a piece of "useful" equipment to negate a damaging wound. By "useful" the implication was that items such as spare magazines, water bottles etc. etc. could be sacrificed but useless items could then be prevented from being hoarded to "trade in" whenever a wound was received.

I've done this unofficially quite a few times, as GM. I wonder if my players realize that I'm deliberately helping them out, and whether they appreciate it or resent it.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

You're limiting your options not using DISADVANTAGE. It is the ideal mechanic for a temporary penalty due to player positioning or behavior. It would be useful for inflicting penalties on the "bad guys" too.

Maybe, but I feel like players punish themselves within the rules by taking foolhardy, reckless actions. If a player charges a machine gun nest across 100m of open field, logical consequences will very likely follow. Rolling Disadvantage against the PCs in additional to circumstantial factors is practically a guarantee of disastrous results. I'd never thought about using it for OPFOR, though.

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I like the INSPIRATION mechanic BUT two of my players come from the "gritty realism" camp and might not approve. The other two come from the "in video games every hero is invincible after the third encounter" camp. I must walk a fine line between the two camps.

I get it. As a GM, you've got to be judicious, and set reasonable limits.

-

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Maybe, but I feel like players punish themselves within the rules by taking foolhardy, reckless actions. If a player charges a machine gun nest across 100m of open field, logical consequences will very likely follow. Rolling Disadvantage against the PCs in additional to circumstantial factors is practically a guarantee of disastrous results. I'd never thought about using it for OPFOR, though.



I get it. As a GM, you've got to be judicious, and set reasonable limits.

-

I have a "min-maxer" (our European members would call him a "munchkin") I have to keep a tight reign on. To give you an idea of how bad it is, He played a BUGBEAR Barbarian/Bard multiclassed character in D&D5e. He literally "dissects" a rulebook looking for "exploits" to increase his chances of dominating the game.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I have a "min-maxer" (our European members would call him a "munchkin") I have to keep a tight reign on. To give you an idea of how bad it is, He played a BUGBEAR Barbarian/Bard multiclassed character in D&D5e. He literally "dissects" a rulebook looking for "exploits" to increase his chances of dominating the game.

Yeah, got one of them here two. Delves deep into the books to find the absolute "best" mix of class/race/skills.
Have another who tends to fudge rolls if you're not closely watching each and every one. Not sure which of them is worse....

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

That's a damned fine idea, it's a quick & neat rule that'll allow us to play around a little with the distinctions between Difficulty Levels without shifting an entire Level.

My experience with the Advantage/Disadvantage system in D&D 5th isn't so positive - there's a feeling around the table that, although the odds should be the same, the chance for success with Advantage is less than the chance for penalty with Disadvantage. As far as I know, nobody has checked to see if this is actually true or if it's all psychological but I do find that the rule itself has a middling to negligible impact on the game.

In our gaming sessions, it has been basically positive. I use it for "momentary" benefit or penalty during play. Gain surprise on a soldier who knew they were being attacked BUT did not know YOU were there? ADVANTAGE on the next attack. Suppressed by enemy fire BUT not over your CUF score yet (I use TW2K13 Coolness rules)? DISADVANTAGE for that round (only). Making a grappling attack and getting outstanding success? The opponent rolls his escape with DISADVANTAGE. Overall, I like the mechanic very much.

One area where the mechanic CAN complicate things is when using Autofire. Under my house rules, a weapon has a Rate of Fire (hereafter ROF) equal to its cyclic rate/100. So for an AKM (ROF 600), you will be rolling 6 D20s for a burst every Phase/Initiative Step. If the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic is implemented, you are now rolling 12 D20s. This can get out of control and bog down the game.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Yeah, got one of them here two. Delves deep into the books to find the absolute "best" mix of class/race/skills.
Have another who tends to fudge rolls if you're not closely watching each and every one. Not sure which of them is worse....

That's a tough one there. The rolls guy would HATE my games. I use the roll as a sort of "narrative tool" during play. I have my players roll the To Hit die, the Location die, and the Damage dice all at the same time. This allows me to instantly see...

- Was there a hit?
- Where was the target hit?
- How badly was the target hit?

I can then "narrate" the hit to the players very quickly and precisely and keep the action flowing. I tend towards a more "cinematic" style these days (to keep my younger player's interest) and being "descriptive" really pays off.

I have even thought (HARD) about adding in Special Effects like those found in Legend/Mythras that will allow the Characters to gain such Effects if they roll either 5 or 10 UNDER the needed score (with lesser Effects at 5 and the better effects at 10) on the Task roll.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

In our gaming sessions, it has been basically positive. I use it for "momentary" benefit or penalty during play. Gain surprise on a soldier who knew they were being attacked BUT did not know YOU were there? ADVANTAGE on the next attack. Suppressed by enemy fire BUT not over your CUF score yet (I use TW2K13 Coolness rules)? DISADVANTAGE for that round (only). Making a grappling attack and getting outstanding success? The opponent rolls his escape with DISADVANTAGE. Overall, I like the mechanic very much.

One area where the mechanic CAN complicate things is when using Autofire. Under my house rules, a weapon has a Rate of Fire (hereafter ROF) equal to its cyclic rate/100. So for an AKM (ROF 600), you will be rolling 6 D20s for a burst every Phase/Initiative Step. If the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic is implemented, you are now rolling 12 D20s. This can get out of control and bog down the game.

Sounds like it makes a good addition to the T2k rules.
When I was talking about Advantage/Disadvantage not seeming to make much impact I was talking explicitly about its impact within D&D 5th. It feels like it was created as a way to keep modifiers in the newest version of D&D without actually having any set modifiers.

[swaghauler]

Instead of just using a flat "10 under your roll equals Outstanding Success" I am now using a system based on the PCs' RAW Skill Levels to determine it. Why? My players pointed out that somebody with little or no raw skill (a level 1 or 0 skill level) but with a high attribute to add to that limited skill could have the same chance of achieving Outstanding Success as someone who was highly skilled but possessed a low attribute score. They questioned why a highly skilled player should have the same chance for success as a poorly trained person with a high attribute. Since this IS a game, and by extension meant to be fun, I am continuing with the base [Skill + Attribute] for a basic success. I did decide, however, that there is NO REASON why an Outstanding Success could reflect a higher skill level. So I began using this system...

The Outstanding Success Rule:

Whenever a PC rolls a Skill Test and the result is Equal To or Less than the Pc's BASE SKILL LEVEL without their Attribute (the 1 to 10 Skill Level score), an Outstanding Success has occurred. Like in the RAW rules, it is up to the GM if an Outstanding Success is even available or not. In addition, the Outstanding Success chance is modified by the Skill Task Difficulty Level. The modifiers are the same for the Skill check. in other words...

- an EASY Task is [Skill X 2] or 10 for a Skill Level of 5.
- a ROUTINE Task is [Skill X 1.5] or 7 for a Skill Level of 5.
- an AVERAGE Task is [Skill] or 5 for a Skill Level of 5.
- a DIFFICULT Task is [Skill X 0.5] or 2 for a Skill Level of 5 (with no Outstanding Success possible with a Skill Level less than 2).
- a FORMIDABLE Task is [Skill X 0.25] or 1 for a Skill Level of 5 (with no Outstanding Success possible with a Skill Level less than 4).
- an IMPOSSIBLE Task is [Skill X 0.1] or NO CHANCE for a Skill Level of 5 (with Outstanding Success only possible at a Skill Level of 10).

I am now using the Outstanding Success level to introduce Special Combat Maneuvers like those found in Mythras/Legend and for the execution of Special Techniques like the Aikido Joint-Lock maneuvers that let you stack up controlling hits WHILE inflicting damage to an opponent.

Exceptional Success:

This is an added "step" in the Skill Success tier/tree that I have added. It can be considered like a "Critical Hit" in Runequest (where Outstanding Success would be like the Impale Special Success in that system). Exceptional Success allows me to "segregate" Special Maneuvers & Techniques into a lower-powered tier and higher-powered tier. Exceptional Success is HALF of the PC's BASE SKILL LEVEL (ie a 5 Base Skill Level would score an Exceptional Success on a roll of 2 or less on an AVERAGE task). Exceptional Success is also modified by the Task's Difficulty Level.

Complications:

Since I was making Outstanding Success Skill-based, I change Catastrophic Failure too. It too is now split into TWO TIERS. The first tier is a Complication. This is a mishap that may or may not occur at the GM's discretion. A mechanic attempting to repair a farmer's tractor may break another component during the attempted repair. Complications are figured differently from Outstanding Success though. A Complication occurs if the roll is [5 + the SKILL LEVEL] OVER the chance of success for the test. So if that PC fixing the farmer's tractor had Mechanics 5 and STR 6, his chance of success is 11 or less on an AVERAGE task. The chance of a Complication would be 21 [5 + a 5 Skill Level added to 11]. IF the task is DIFFICULT (a roll of 6 or less on 1D20 in my game), the chance of a Complication occurring is 16 or higher on that D20 roll.

Catastrophic Failure:

Catastrophic Failure is the worst tier and would represent explosions, crashes, and irreparably damaged equipment. It occurs only on a roll of [10 + the SKILL LEVEL] over the chance of success. Thus, the mechanic above would see a Catastrophic Failure only on a FORMIDABLE Task (a roll of 3 or less in my game) and only when they rolled an 18 or higher.

Overall, this system has been well received by my players and they LOVE the Special Combat Moves (like Trip, Overextend, and Outmaneuver) and the implementation of Special Techniques in HTH.

[Milano]

I love the CUF and OODA idea of and in my game I treat them as Attributes that can be more easily increased. ie a Special Forces soldier get a CUF and OODA of +1. But a homemaker, WITH children do also. (If you haven't raised multiple children you don't get it.) Clerical office staff do not get a bonus. Upon the outbreak of war there is a bonus to the levels attained during character generation dependent upon age.

They are as such..
TERM \ AGE \ OODA BONUS \ CUF BONUS
1 \ 17 \ 1 \ 6
2 \ 21 \ 2 \ 5
3 \ 25 \ 2 \ 4
4 \ 29 \ 3 \ 3
5 \ 33 \ 3 \ 3
6 \ 37 \ 4 \ 3
7 \ 41 \ 4 \ 3
8 \ 45 \ 4 \ 4
9 \ 49 \ 4 \ 4
10 \ 53 \ 5 \ 4
11 \ 57 \ 5 \ 4
12 \ 61 \ 5 \ 5
13 \ 65 \ 6 \ 6

As you can see there is a benefit to getting old, especially during the apocalypse, you are old enough to take your time and to old to care. In addition if your young you're indestructible.

For example a 34 year old Delta soldier, that I rolled up for rules testing, has an OODA of 10 and a CUF of 9.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Milano

I love the CUF and OODA idea of and in my game I treat them as Attributes that can be more easily increased. ie a Special Forces soldier get a CUF and OODA of +1. But a homemaker, WITH children do also. (If you haven't raised multiple children you don't get it.) Clerical office staff do not get a bonus. Upon the outbreak of war there is a bonus to the levels attained during character generation dependent upon age.

They are as such..
TERM \ AGE \ OODA BONUS \ CUF BONUS
1 \ 17 \ 1 \ 6
2 \ 21 \ 2 \ 5
3 \ 25 \ 2 \ 4
4 \ 29 \ 3 \ 3
5 \ 33 \ 3 \ 3
6 \ 37 \ 4 \ 3
7 \ 41 \ 4 \ 3
8 \ 45 \ 4 \ 4
9 \ 49 \ 4 \ 4
10 \ 53 \ 5 \ 4
11 \ 57 \ 5 \ 4
12 \ 61 \ 5 \ 5
13 \ 65 \ 6 \ 6

As you can see there is a benefit to getting old, especially during the apocalypse, you are old enough to take your time and to old to care. In addition if your young you're indestructible.

For example a 34 year old Delta soldier, that I rolled up for rules testing, has an OODA of 10 and a CUF of 9.

I allow my players to improve their CUF and all of their physical attributes during play as well.