African/Zoo animals in the US

[nduffy]

So, an interesting thought... What would happen to all those African game animals on all those ranches spread across Texas and the US? Many of these are far enough away from cities that the animals would most likely survive a blast. Texas is also identical to Africa in climate and terrain. So I theorize/ wonder how many species of these would survive and at some point thrive. Many of the antelope species with no natural predators other than man would take off. Also there are rescues for big cats and other predators that are in rural areas. At some point they would either be dispatched or set loose. Lions and tigers and bears Oh My!Just something I have been contemplating. Imagine finding giraffes or wild gazelle as a recon team or realize the critter in your camp is a tiger or running across a pack of lions ... just "food" for thought.....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

While not directly related to TMP, two thoughts come to mind based on what you mentioned.

The first is the scenario Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright for Twilight: 2000, 1st Ed. in Challenge issue 37. In this scenario, the PCs are hired by someone in Florida to hunt & kill some tigers that have been attacking livestock but recently killed a child. The tigers were from some African safari park and escaped during the Twilight War.
So yeah, definitely a problem for anyone, predatory big cats on the loose.

The second thought is of the third movie version of I Am Legend in which Will Smith's character encounters wild animals roaming around the streets. Since the humans have significantly decreased in number, nature is reclaiming the cities and a number of animals escaped the zoos and wildlife parks and survived to populate the places formerly occupied by humans.

This end part of this clip in particular, is what I'm thinking of (the beginning is just out and out stupid shit, screaming around in a muscle car trying to gun down some panicking animals... but the end illustrates the point you are asking about)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHZKSYLAecQ

[knightofrubus]

So, this is one of my favorite thought experiments.

We already have African Black Buck roaming wild in Texas as well as colonies of feral monkey in Florida alongside an abundance of reptiles like Nile Moniter.

With Texas/the Midwest having an abundance of big cats we could in such a scenario see established prides of lion or Tiger ranging northward and East into the forests.

We may also see zoos or sanctuaries turning them loose over killing. So places like Cleveland with their elephant herds may become the start point for new herds that would move South as well feeding on species like Locust, Osage Orange and Kentucky Coffee Tree all native trees that adapted to Mammoths.

If you wanna get in the nitty gritty look into Trophic Restoration/Rewilding as well as the American Serengeti.

[mmartin798]

It is a fun thing to think about. There is always some guesswork, since some of the animals may be more susceptible to some diseases common in the US that are not present or of a different strain in their native habitats. Things like chronic wasting disease and triple-E quickly spring to mind. Then there is the thoughts about a prey animal quickly growing in population because of the lack of predation and crowding out native species, a new apex predator displacing an existing one. It's always interesting to do and doesn't have to be the same for every game.

[knightofrubus]

Very true though there are some trends that we can observe. If we look at the spread of various sizes invasive species we can figure how far they have traveled over time, where they may establish etc.

The real fun is when is when things trigger cascades and alter the very terrain like what hippo are doing in Columbia after being imported by Pablo Escobar. While diseases might be a risk by the time the project rolls out by and large those factors will have culled and stabilized for the most part. Likewise, the US has a lot and I mean a lot of 'niche space' that needs filling. Remember the US lost pretty much all of its large herbivores, predators and ecosystem engineers during the Pleistocene but kept most of the flora suited for them. If we look at ranges for species like elk, bison and wolves we see greatly diminished ranges meaning lots of room to fill them in. And, while the climate may not be suitable everywhere its close enough a lot of species do fine. We have established parrot colonies in Chicago for example.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

In regards to the climate, with the length of time that passes before the teams get activated and are potentially encountering these animals, the climate may very well have shifted to something more favourable to the animals.

Either that or the animals themselves have started evolving to fit in with the climate. A few hundred years gives plenty of time for some of these species to start adapting.
For example, the average lifespan for a lion in the wild is 10-15 years. Even in just one hundred years, that's about six to nine generations.

Looking at what's happened in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, some animals have grown to quite large sizes in a relatively short time because there's no humans to prey on them. The same sort of thing could happen with TMP, very few humans to interfere with the animals coupled with a larger area to grow in, some species could potentially become larger than expected (excluding natural predation).

[knightofrubus]

That's a good point. Some species in particular fish may reach frankly absurd sizes without fishing pressure. We would also generally see more of animals as a whole. Flocks of pigeons, starlings and even seagulls may explode during that period.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

That's a good point. Some species in particular fish may reach frankly absurd sizes without fishing pressure...

Which also potentially gives some "astounding" situations in the game, "the one that got away" won't just be a tale told by fishermen. Imagine if the Team hears tales of water monsters grabbing children who stray too close to riverbank, then later they hear tales of "the biggest fish I ever saw!"
Sure, it's just stories told around the fire at night to keep people amused...

Until the day the Team happens upon the giant catfish inhabiting the river!

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Which also potentially gives some "astounding" situations in the game, "the one that got away" won't just be a tale told by fishermen. Imagine if the Team hears tales of water monsters grabbing children who stray too close to riverbank, then later they hear tales of "the biggest fish I ever saw!"
Sure, it's just stories told around the fire at night to keep people amused...

Until the day the Team happens upon the giant catfish inhabiting the river!

Welks Catfish comes to mind,, saw them on an episode of River Monsters.. Cunning fish and get to man eating size. Also the Asian Carp becoming an issue. I have heard that folks have learned how to cook them in such a way that the bones are not a problem nor the greasiness of them as well. I know there is an Elephant sanctuary in Tennessee that is really large. Texas is rampant with Axis, Fallow and Seka Deer as well as Audad Sheep (makes good jerky) Also I know of several private ranches that are actively breeding giraffes and rhinos. They fund these endeavors by breeding african game antelope and sell off the meat or allow hunters to pay $$$$$$$ to hunt the trophy animals. I guess your limited by only your imagination for this..

[knightofrubus]

Asian Carp can be very 'fun' as they're instinctive defense to being startled or electrocuted is to fly en mass out of water.

Fisheries guys have been concussed and killed by them during electrofishing on rivers with them. As I mean twenty plus pounds of hard scaled fish is gonna do a number on anyone. Though now Im wondering what the E-factor would be!

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

Asian Carp can be very 'fun' as they're instinctive defense to being startled or electrocuted is to fly en mass out of water.

Fisheries guys have been concussed and killed by them during electrofishing on rivers with them. As I mean twenty plus pounds of hard scaled fish is gonna do a number on anyone. Though now Im wondering what the E-factor would be!

ROTFLMAO!!!! The same as a lightly armored vehicle?

[nduffy]

I think it would be interesting to figure out how many foreign species would survive and thrive in the US. We all know the already established ones, it would also be interesting to see their potential dispersal rate. Also how the remainder of the US deals with them. I can easily see gazelle and antelope thriving and becoming a staple. also many of them becoming " domesticated" or even ranched/ farmed. Elephants being one of them that could be trained for various uses. I think I am going to rabbit hole this...

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by nduffy

Elephants being one of them that could be trained for various uses. I think I am going to rabbit hole this...

So..... Warriors of Krell using armored war elephants mounting a small canon on the tower perhaps?


Had some time today and couldn't resist.

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

So..... Warriors of Krell using armored war elephants mounting a small canon on the tower perhaps?

I am thinking more as a tow beast, towing or carting items,,,i.e. cannons, plowing and any other chore found suitable...

Although quad-ped tank does sound cool! :

[knightofrubus]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

So..... Warriors of Krell using armored war elephants mounting a small canon on the tower perhaps?

Maybe less cannon more gatling gun? The recoil would be hell on their spines. Also fun fact Kudzu is prime elephant food so the deep South might be able to support a robust herd of forest elephants.

The real fun is when you start realizing minutes lizards have been steadily moving north and they can grow over four foot in length normally. And that they're not far removed from the school bus sized megalania which opens up some...fun mutation options.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

The recoil would be hell on their spines.

I was thinking more on the scale of a swivel gun since they were mounted on the railing of a wooden ship. They only have a bore of about 1.5 inches and are more like big rifles.

[knightofrubus]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

I was thinking more on the scale of a swivel gun since they were mounted on the railing of a wooden ship. They only have a bore of about 1.5 inches and are more like big rifles.

That might make sense and have you heard the song Elephant Riders by the band Clutch by chance?

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

...have you heard the song Elephant Riders by the band Clutch by chance?

No, but I will look it up and listen.

[knightofrubus]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

No, but I will look it up and listen.

More to the topic has anyone considered what impact the dispersal of Emu and similar birds may have? They're technically livestock and likely in the right climate would do well.

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

More to the topic has anyone considered what impact the dispersal of Emu and similar birds may have? They're technically livestock and likely in the right climate would do well.

There are a crap to of Emu and Ostrich running around Texas ranches and breeding. I could easily see them continuing to be bred and even running loose around those areas. Emu meat is pretty damned good! and they are fairly easy to maintain and raise. Ostrich are fairly good also and are pretty low maintenance. they seem to be doing well in the SW US so I can easily see them thriving..

I am working on a list of non-native species found on ranches in and around TX, OK, NM,CO. I am really surprised at what I am finding out there!!! Holy crap!! As soon as I get the list done, I may post it if anyone is interested...

[knightofrubus]

Definitely do! I'm curious myself.

[nduffy]

I literally have come to the conclusion that 1/2 of Africa's game worthy or endangered animals can be found here...
Here is the list so far!
Some of these are no African but can be found on ranches or involved in conservation efforts.

Blackbuck
Gemsbok- Oryx Gazelle
Thompson's Gazelle
Greater Kudu
Lesser Kudu
Giant Sable
Impala
Nyala
Roan Antelope
Arabian Oryx
Nilgai Antelope
Giant Eland Antelope
Sable Antelope
Waterbuck Antelope
Springbok
Gerenuk
Dama Gazelle
Bongo

Camel
Roe Deer
Axis Deer
Seka Deer
Fallow Deer
Sambar Deer
Aoudad Sheep
Wild Boar Russian
Wild Boar Razorback (European) Not much difference between it and the Russian
Black Rhino
White Rhino
Giraffe All Species
Indian Elephants
African Elephants

Emu
Ostrich
Ringneck Pheasants

Lions
Tigers
Leopards
Various Wolf rescues, breeds are varied

I have had Emu and Ostrich eggs. Taste like eggs, one egg can feed a family. I have also had duck, turkey and geese eggs.. Eggs are basically eggs all these birds to include quail are kept for meat and eggs. Bonus on geese is they are very noisy making great intruder alarms (goes back to medieval times) , also lets not forget guinea fowl. (also great tick control)

[knightofrubus]

Lets not forget peafowl and parrots or least budgeries. Wild colonies have had excellent success in reclaiming old native parrot ranges like the Carolinas.

[nduffy]

There are Quaker parrots that have made a successful colony in Irving TX and i have seen many a peacock on the loose. Also seen budgies.. I was mainly focused on the game/ predatory animals. Figured they would be the most useful and most interesting to the MP teams.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Emus are hardy creatures, when European farming was introduced to Australia in the early days of colonisation, the emu population was quick to make use of the easily accessible food & water the farms provided.
They have reached plague proportions a few times here and have had to be culled to prevent them over-running farmlands and destroying crops.

Those emus raised in the US would be adapted to winter conditions there so climate would not be a particular problem for them in the wild and they are very capable at defending themselves. Their centre toe has a very large claw than can (and has) cut open dogs and injured people.

Given that they are a bird adapted to the harsher conditions of Australia (in regard to finding food and water), I think they would thrive in the wild of North America due to the better availability of food and water and the only real predators they would have would probably be puma and any big cats released from zoos, wildlife parks etc. etc.

[nduffy]

The Emu and Ostrich already are breeding like rabbits here in TX. You can go online and find Emu meat for sale at a reasonable price. I can see it being ranched and farmed as easily as cattle. Hell it almost already is...

[Desert Mariner]

An addition to your African wildlife list. Fossil Rim Wildlife Center in Glen Rose TX is touted as the worlds largest cheetah breeding facility.

[nduffy]

Fossil Rim /Glen Rose is not to far down the road from me... totally forgot about that place.... never really drive that direction..and I did forget about cheetahs being down there and in general... its a list in the works.

[gamerguy]

Exotic animals are not limited to Texas or the US either. Here in Ontario there are some options for displaced species.

In the '80s there was a push to start farming Emus. The hook was some oil gland or other was supposed to be valuable. Plus the meat made use of the carcass. I know there were quite a few farms in and around Kitchener Waterloo area. What they did with the birds I don't know but that whole market is bust.

In the '90s a guy from the western US imported the first alpacas into north America. He split the herd into three and kept them at different locations in case of disease or some other unknown event he would only lose one or two thirds of the critters. I know this as the Lama farm (yet another species!) they kept one group in was local to the vet clinic my wife worked at. She had quite a way with them and saved a very rare baby so became quite the hero in the importer's eye. She kept the idea of getting a few and keeping them on our property going for years "helped" by input from our nephew's wife. They are kept for their wool much like the Lamas. The terrain is not as mountainous as where they are from but the climate here should be reasonably close temperature wise. Don't know if they taste good or not.

There is a big cat rescue entity near where we used to live. Orono Jungle Cat World, or something like that. I think unwanted grown up lions, tiger, etc. were saved and housed there. They ran it as sort of a zoo mostly to recoup costs. Another source or idea of how and where off continent big cats can come from.

My wife being a vet was very much into everything. We had peafowl for years, a pair but siblings. One day one got loose and we saw it walking down the drive (we lived in the country) so we ran out and corralled it up and led it back to the pen, where it already was! Here we found a "wild" loose peafowl just walking around central Ontario as if it was just the thing to do. Turns out our neighbors had it walk up their drive a couple years earlier so they fed and kept it. Well it got out and hearing ours came to investigate. So another odd creature you can "just run into".

Last one, not Ontario but I think in Pennsylvania. Clive Peelings Reptile Land is what I always took for a small sad roadside attraction on the drive from my place to my sister's in the DC area. One year my wife spotted the sign and insisted we stop. I was all set for a handful of ill kept animals in lousy cages which would be very depressing. Turns out Clive is one of the top authorities on reptiles in north America and this place would put any high end Zoo to shame. I was very impressed and this thread got me thinking how these animals would fare out in the wild.

[nduffy]

I know there are a lot of Alpacas and Llamas in through the US and Canada. Our neighbor has Llamas. Traditionally they are used for their fur, meat and as pack animals. I have an old friend who use to use an alpaca to help carry his camera gear around and also his hiking bag. He had a bad leg and made many day hikes around the TX hill country. Texas also had a camel corp back in the early days. The US army experimented with them as a replacement for horses for the desert and dry areas of the US. I have heard there are a few wild ones still running around West Texas through New Mexico but I think its just hearsay. I know donkeys run those areas and do quit well. I can see all of these being used in a post apoc world. Caravan animals would be quit worth while.